Thursday, 5 January 2012

The purpose of life according to the Koran

YUSUFALI: It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.

PICKTHAL: He it is Who created you from dust, then from a drop (of seed) then from a clot, then bringeth you forth as a child, then (ordaineth) that ye attain full strength and afterward that ye become old men - though some among you die before - and that ye reach an appointed term, that haply ye may understand.

SHAKIR: He it is Who created you from dust, then from a small lifegerm, then from a clot, then He brings you forth as a child, then that you may attain your maturity, then that you may be old-- and of you there are some who are caused to die before-- and that you may reach an appointed term, and that you may understand.


Anonymous said...

Nothing about DNA double helix...hmmm. The Qur'an also says the sun revolves around the earth.

No point telling them the Surah - they just come back with lame excuses.

36:38 While the sun keeps revolving in its orbit. This is the dispensation of the might all knowing (God).

36:39 We have determined the stations of the moon, so that (after its wanderings) it returns as a dried up infloresent spike of dates.

Claire Khaw said...

What crap translation have you got, IC1MALE?

Claire Khaw said...

YUSUFALI: And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.

PICKTHAL: And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

SHAKIR: And the sun runs on to a term appointed for it; that is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing.

Claire Khaw said...

YUSUFALI: And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

PICKTHAL: And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.

SHAKIR: And (as for) the moon, We have ordained for it stages till it becomes again as an old dry palm branch.

Claire Khaw said...

Who comes back with lame excuses for what?

Anonymous said...

Ahmed Ali

Princeton University Press

Even your version says 'And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him'

How is that correct?

That's what they make lame excuses about - the sun doesn't revolve or run a course.

Islam is backward - the so called mathematical advances they made were all taken from Greeks.

Do you think it's a 'beautiful religion'? A beautiful religion which forbids music and art?

Anonymous said...

You might like the Muslim room 'dialogue between Christians and Muslims' on pal talk.

Don't mention Aisha though they take offense at that.

People usually convert to Islam because they are lost and feel unwanted by others.

Claire Khaw said...

Perhaps the sun does go around something, which astronomers have not discovered yet, IC1MALE.

If it is subsequently discovered that the sun does go around SOMETHING (not the Earth, obviously), would your views on the Koran change?

Claire Khaw said...

Where does it say in the Koran that it forbids art and music?

Claire Khaw said...

I am already talking to Muslims and Christians on Facebook, some of them scholars, but thank you for the recommendation.

Claire Khaw said...

I do not see why the sun might not go around the Centre of the Universe, wherever that is.

Obviously we will not know if the sun does indeed do so, if we do not way where the Centre of the Universe is, or where in the Universe we are.

Claire Khaw said...

The Sun goes around the Milky Way.

Cool book, the Koran.

Claire Khaw said...

But don't ask me how the astronomers know or how they managed to take the photo of the milky way with the arrow pointing to our sun!

Anonymous said...

It wouldn't make me change my views on the Qur'an as the bible said the same things 500 years earlier (it was wrong then too).

"Each one is traveling in an orbit with its own motion" (Qur'an 21:33 and 36:40).

Why does it give the impression that the earth is stationary and that the sun travels to one end of space and then comes to rest in a muddy spring?

Why does it give the impression that the sun and moon travel on the same course when we know that the moon is actually rotating around the earth and it is the earth that rotates around the sun?

Why nothing about the earth moving in an orbit?

21:33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.

36:40 It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).

91:1-2By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him.

If these verses are supposedly foretelling that the planets and stars are floating in an orbit, why then is there no mention of the fact that the earth is floating as well? Particularly the verses 36:40 and 91:2 also give the impression that both the sun and the moon travel on an identical orbit where the sun never catches up to the moon. The fact is that, just as Shabir mentions, the moon and sun are not traveling together since the moon orbits around the earth, not the sun. It is the earth that travels around the sun.

The expression "the sun not catching up the moon" shows very clearly that what Muhammad had in mind was the progress of each body across the sky. The moon tracks across the sky at night, the sun at day - so of course they could not "catch up". He watched the two racing across the sky, neither one catching the other. But the very idea of catching up shows that in his 7th century mind, sun and moon were running on the same track.

14:33 And maketh the sun and the moon, constant in their courses, to be of service unto you, and hath made of service unto you the night and the day.

13:2 Allah it is Who raised up the heavens without visible supports, then mounted the Throne, and compelled the sun and the moon to be of service, each runneth unto an appointed term; He ordereth the course; He detaileth the revelations, that haply ye may be certain of the meeting with your Lord.

36:39-40 "And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she returns like an old shrivelled palm-leaf. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

39:5 He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. He maketh night to succeed day, and He maketh day to succeed night, and He constraineth the sun and the moon to give service, each running on for an appointed term. Is not He the Mighty, the Forgiver? S.

Again, if the Qur'an indeed were foretelling modern scientific fact why then did this last verse not state that the earth is also running on a course for an appointed term? Wouldn't this have been a perfect place for God to state that the earth also travels seeing that the orbit of both the sun and moon are mentioned in this verse? Instead, this is the sixth verse where the impression given is that the earth is not traveling, whereas the sun and moon are. The point that the earth is not traveling is solidified by the following verse:

27:61 Pickthall Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode (wrong), and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any God beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! S.

The Qur'an nowhere speaks about an orbit of the sun in the universe, it always speaks about the orbit of the sun "around the earth" (through the sky from East to West) as observed in its movement from sunrise to sunset.

Anonymous said...

It says the earth is flat too - just like the Christians believed back then.

79:27-30 What, are you stronger in constitution or the heaven He built? He lifted up its vault, and levelled it, and darkened its night, and brought forth its forenoon; and the earth - after that He spread it out

88:20 Nor even how the earth has been FLATTENED out?

Music is forbidden according to the Hadiths.

In Islamic terminology, the term hadith refers to reports of statements or actions of Muhammad, or of his tacit approval or criticism of something said or done in his presence.

Classical hadith specialist Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani says that the intended meaning of hadith in religious tradition is something attributed to Muhammad, as opposed to the Quran.

“Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).

This hadeeth indicates in two ways that musical instruments and enjoyment of listening to music are haraam.

The first is the fact that Mohammed
said: “[they] permit” which clearly indicates that the things mentioned, including musical instruments, are haraam according to sharee’ah, but those people will permit them.

The second is the fact that musical instruments are mentioned alongside things which are definitely known to be haraam, i.e., zinaa and alcohol: if they (musical instruments) were not haraam, why would they be mentioned alongside these things?

Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) said: This hadeeth indicates that ma’aazif are haraam, and ma’aazif means musical instruments according to the scholars of (Arabic) language. This word includes all such instruments. (al-Majmoo’, 11/535).

Hadiths talk about drawing to0

Hazrat Aisha (the 9 year old he was fucking presumably) narrates: Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) returned from a military expedition. (When he was away) I put a curtain with pictures in front of the cupboard. When Allah’s Messenger saw the curtain, he torn it away angrily and his face was red with anger: “O Aisha!” said he, “know that who will suffer the most on the Judgment Day are the ones who imitate Allah’s creatures”. Aisha continued: “We cut off that curtain into pieces and made a few cushions out of it.” (Bukhari, Libas, 91, 95)

Imam Nawawi said the following on the issue:“That hadith is evidence that it is forbidden to draw pictures of living beings, yet drawing pictures of beings which do not have a soul such as trees and making money out of it is not forbidden.”

Art with no people or animals in it - that's why they stick to those squiggles which I don't class as art (freedom of expression).

Claire - the Qur'an talks about torturing and killing unbelievers.

The Muslims will always say "out of context" I bet you've heard that one a few times from your scholars?

I also remember it (the Qur'an) saying women can't go to funerals ,their evidence is only 50% that of a man, and it is for the accused woman to prove her innocence (has to have more than 2x the witnesses) as opposed to innocent until proven guilty.

That's why Pakistan has thousands of raped women in jail on adultery charges.

I hate feminism too but those things are not 'cool'

Anonymous said...

Dam - the comment was too long so I copy and pasted the other half to a word doc that got deleted.

It's all debunked here Claire.

Claire Khaw said...

YUSUFALI: What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? (Allah) hath constructed it:
PICKTHAL: Are ye the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built?
SHAKIR: Are you the harder to create or the heaven? He made it.

YUSUFALI: On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection.
PICKTHAL: He raised the height thereof and ordered it;
SHAKIR: He raised high its height, then put it into a right good state.

YUSUFALI: Its night doth He endow with darkness, and its splendour doth He bring out (with light).
PICKTHAL: And He made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof.
SHAKIR: And He made dark its night and brought out its light.

YUSUFALI: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
PICKTHAL: And after that He spread the earth,
SHAKIR: And the earth, He expanded it after that.

I can't detect any flat-earthism in those verses.

Claire Khaw said...

YUSUFALI: And at the Earth, how it is spread out?
PICKTHAL: And the earth, how it is spread?
SHAKIR: And the earth, how it is made a vast expanse?

No signs of flat-earthism in that translation either.

Claire Khaw said...

As I have said before, I reject all Hadith that contradict the Koran, and I wish Muslims would do the same too.