Friday, 27 September 2013

Ex-BNP racial nationalists say they will vote UKIP at the next general election

Twenty Years On: Nationalist Unity meeting to remember Derek Beackon's election victory, September 1993

A meeting took place in East London to mark the September 1993 election of Derek Beackon in Tower Hamlets. This election win was against all the odds, and the strategy behind it was highlighted by long-standing British nationalist Richard Edmonds. Other speakers discussed the present political system's weaknesses

Part 2 of the nationalist election success in Tower Hamlets: former East London organiser Dave King gives his perspective on the events that shook the established political system, and the mainstream media.

The third part of the tribute to nationalist strategy for electoral success in East London. Four other speakers give their views on how a small group took on the big political parties, and won. (Frank Forte, Tess Culnane, Mike Newland, Jez Turner)

Part 4 of the tribute meeting to Derek Beackon's election success in East London. Peter Rushton gives a broad view of the setbacks that nationalism has faced in three decades, and how the principles behind the effort to regain national identity have not changed

If white racists get into power using civic nationalism, the first thing they will do is kick all non whites out including you
how will you convince white racists, that brown people are ok?
you mean you want to become the leader of the ethno nationalists first and then hopefully the civics will unite behind your new brand of nationalism when they say your popularity?
why don't you just bypass ethno nationalists? why spend so much time with them? they typically are low paid, uneducated and stupid, what do you gain by persuading them of your ideas? they are no use, why not just spend time with people who are already civic nationalists and are making progress
why do you spend a lot of time in the company of people who are racist?

Claire Khaw The problem with nationalism is that nationalists have no idea what they are going to do after they have turfed people out of their country.

People need a Big Idea that they want to be part of.
Kevin Scott And Claire's "big idea" is that we embrace the idea of the pro-immigration Labour leader of Newham, Sir Robin Wales, and promote 'integration'! Doh!!
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Claire Khaw Never heard of it till you mentioned it, Kevin!
Kevin Scott But that is what you want (if I remember your very poor speech in Newcastle a year or so back,) isn't it, Claire?
Claire Khaw I was the only one who spoke in favour of civic nationalism, and you rather took against that.
Claire Khaw Still you and others have said you would vote UKIP next election, so you have implicitly conceded that civic nationalism has won the argument.
Kevin Scott Primarily because I am not a civic/state nationalist!
Claire Khaw I think you would all be a bit taken aback if I started advocating ethno-nationalism!
Claire Khaw Civic nationalism is not a state of mind, but a STRATEGY.
Kevin Scott Not really, I have voted UKIP in the past (the 1997 and 2001 general elections, plus the recent PCC elections last November.) At the last council elections I voted Green.
Claire Khaw Just because you have adopted this STRATEGY does not mean you care about your own people less.
Kevin Scott I am open to strategy, but not sell-out!
Claire Khaw In what way would have "sold out" if you do not actively go around being rude to other races and threatening to turf them out?
Claire Khaw People like you make UKIP's job harder. You must already know that the first step towards regaining national sovereignty is to leave the EU. Nothing you do makes any sense.

Perhaps it does if you enjoy going round in ever decreasing circles.
Susan Clapp Im only voting ukip because has i said we have no other choice, if something else comes along ill change my mind, we voted for griffin and look where he got us? Who can you trust, I'll take my chances and then hold my hands up if im wrong, but what else does anyone suggest.
23 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
Claire Khaw Council elections are a WASTE of time. So are the Euro elections.
Claire Khaw The only election that matters is General Elections, and your scatter-gun approach is completely hopeless.

However, since you have no one who is MP material anyway, the whole exercise is irrelevant.

The best thing you can all do is take a long-deserved rest and vote UKIP.
Frank Forte When you break it all down. English , Irish Welsh and Scots are histoically WHITE CAUCASIAN. At one time the fact that a few ethnics had mixed in was of little to no consequence. That was WAY BACK THEN. The fact that our race is in serious danger of being ethnically cleansed due to crooked immigration policies and rocketing birthrate is cause for preserving our race and to some this means the REPATRIATION of ALL NON WHITES.
Claire Khaw I have said many a time that the problem of immigration is so bad in this country that even immigrants have a problem with immigration now.

You won't accept this because acknowledging the truth of this means having to embrace civic nationalism.
Claire Khaw You can say "Repatriate all non-whites" till you are blue in the face, but it will never happen if you cannot even get it together to trigger an EU referendum, will it?
Frank Forte No Claire, I do not see it happening either for a number of reasons. I understand those that feel that way though.
Frank Forte In the late 60's and early 70's There was every hope of doing this and it would have been the right thing to do.
Claire Khaw Ethno-nationalism is the equivalent of asking a girl you fancy if she fancies a shag.

Civic nationalism is the equivalent of asking her if you can buy her a drink.
Claire Khaw Ethno-nationalism is the equivalent of a child who has not been told by its mother not to begin any sentence beginning with "I want ... "
Frank Forte Not now though. Things have got too dire. I believe we have been sold out and betrayed by our Politicians. Now, if I am honest I really do not know what the solution is, other than to do what you can to get Nationalists into eventual power and THEN fight out your differences.
Frank Forte I DO ask my women for a shag.
Claire Khaw You have all given up. You seem to think that the only thing left for you to do is to be rude about other races, because that is all ethno-nationalism really means, *in practice*.
Frank Forte No Ethno Nationalism is NOT about slagging other races it is about PRESERVING yours.
Claire Khaw Oh, and living in the past and making a point of never doing anything new or different because that would mean you have betrayed your principles ...
Claire Khaw Not being rude about other races is not "betraying your principles".

Threatening to turf them out has not gotten you anywhere, has it?

The most successful nationalist party in Europe is Front Nationale and it is CIVIC nationalist.
Claire Khaw How can you preserve your own culture and race if men do not exercise masculine and parental authority?
Claire Khaw How can solve your problem when you refuse to deal with the causes but only complain about the symptoms?
Claire Khaw Let's just say people are prepared to listen to you and take you seriously.

When they ask you what you are going to do and how you will run the country after you have turfed out everyone you want to turf out, what have you to say to them?
Claire Khaw Even racial nationalists like Kevin Scott and Mike Newland have admitted that they have no option but to vote UKIP at the next General Election.

This means that civic nationalism has won the argument.
Claire Khaw Immigrants when they first arrive tend to vote for the party that let them in. They were told by Labour that the Tories would turf them out given half the chance.

Once they are here long enough they will think of supporting UKIP, or even the BNP!
Claire Khaw If you can't quite manage to turf them out you might as well try to get them to vote for you.
Claire Khaw If you go down the civic nationalist route, you can mop up all these votes.

Immigrants who complain about immigration are the most unrepresented lot of voter in this country.

They cannot complain to the LibLabCon because they will be reminded that they too are also immigrants, while they know the Eurosceptic parties don't like them much and they don't want to be seen as turkeys voting for Xmas.
Claire Khaw The only way to strengthen the Eurosceptic movement can only be by going civic and helping UKIP even if they say they don't need or want your help.

UKIP cannot defeat the LibLabCon on their own, can they?

Even the LibDems was the result of a merger of the Liberal Party and the SDP.
Frank Forte Yes I WILL vote for UKIP this time around and I will be voting for a Civic Nationalist Party If one appears. ONLY because any other type of Nationsalism will not get a look in.
Claire Khaw What the BNP should do is go OFFICIALLY AND EXCLUSIVELY civic.

Only when it has done so would it be in a position to compete with UKIP.

This is so OBVIOUS to me.
Claire Khaw In the case of nationalism, diversity of ideology is *not* strength.
Claire Khaw Currently, UKIP is the only anti-immigration party that you can say you vote for in mixed company without losing friends and business.

That is the bottom line.
Claire Khaw If the BNP won't go exclusively and officially civic, the BDP would be in a position to force its hand by doing so itself.

The BDP can only go officially and exclusively civic in a convincing way by having me as a member in a prominent position.

Once that is done, the BNP will follow suit and also go officially and exclusively civic.

Only when the BNP has gone officially and exclusively civic will your old party will be in a position to compete with UKIP again.
Claire Khaw When the BNP is officially and exclusively civic it can co-operate and do deals with UKIP as well as capitalise on Labour weakness and infighting.
Claire Khaw This can all be done easily and does not require any expenditure of money or resources.

I have in mind UKIP standing in Tory seats to threaten Tories, and the BNP standing in Labour seats to threaten Labour.
Claire Khaw If all you can say is "Let's just wait for things to collapse and take power when civil disorder to breaks out," you are not going to get the confidence and trust of the average voter, are you?
Claire Khaw It can be done with a nudge and a wink.

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David King Why is this dragging on over a picture that was taken recently. The pic we used for Derek back then was nothing like this one. The fact is WE WON regardless. The people of Millwall voted based mainly on our housing policy and our slogan of 'RIGHTS FOR WHITES'. Millions of idiotic British people voted for Tony Blair because of his sickly smile and look where that got us. The people of Millwall were intelligent enough to see through the lies and fake smiles of the other candidates and voted for truth and facts.
23 hours ago via mobile · Like · 2
Claire Khaw Who will you be voting for in the 2015 General Election, David?
David King Sadly Claire, it will have to be the best of a bad bunch, UKIP. There will be no BNP candidate in Basildon and UKIP are saying the things nearest to what I want to hear.
23 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1
Claire Khaw David, your answer, and that of the others, suggests that there is a certain consensus even amongst racial nationalists, that civic nationalism has already won the argument.

The most useful thing the BNP can do now that it is hopelessly eclipsed by UKIP is to go officially and exclusively civic.

Only when it does that will it have a fighting chance of competing with UKIP again.

If the BNP won't listen the BDP can do so to start the ball rolling.

Remember that Front Nationale now officially civic nationalist and who says it is closer to UKIP than the BNP is only successful because it has come to terms with this political reality, ie that the majority of white people even in white countries do not want to be seen as racist.
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Claire Khaw The most constructive thing the BDP could be doing is to acknowledge this reality, ie that the only viable way to be Eurosceptic and anti-immigration is to be civic nationalist.

Not only must the BDP acknowledge this, it must be seen to be show publicly that it understands this new reality.

To show that it has understood it and to show that is prepared to demonstrate its new civic nationalist credentials, it should have me in a prominent position in the party ie as Media Spokesman.

Now, what would be the problem with this, apart from the fact that you cannot bear the thought of this because you don't really want to be civic and want to remain ethno-nationalists?

Kevin Scott, have you been putting these arguments to Andrew Brons?
David King I dont see it as a case if Racial nationalism versus Civic nationalism. I see it as a reality that no true nationalist wants to vote for a Griffin led BNP that serves only to finance his lifestyle and ego. If the BNP was led today by someone with the decency, integrity and morals of Richard Edmonds, its support would come flooding back. So in the likelihood this will never happen or the absence of any other serious nationalist party/candidate in the Basildon area, I have to vote for the next best thing
22 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1
Claire Khaw While Richard Edmonds is a good and rousing speaker, the fact remains that Nick Griffin is still the better man to connect with the average voter, and this is why more party members will always vote Griffin than for Richard in any leadership election.

It is not just a matter of choosing a leader whom you like and trust, but of also choosing a leader *who will connect with the average voter*.

If you don't understand this reality, you will not understand why you will never get anywhere in politics under your class system.

Do not forget that Nick Griffin is a public school boy and the average voter is a snob who can't help voting for someone in the class above them.

That was why the Tories voted for Cameron when he had no policies and ignored David Davies who was not a toff even though he had all the right policies.

That was why Labour could not get anywhere under the Welsh windbag Kinnock and only started motoring when they had a public school boy as their leader.

Please understand the reality of your class system.

It is not because people don't care about immigration that they won't vote for you. They all love your policies and have done so for decades, as you can see at It is because they already know which class the average BNP member belongs to.

I am sorry to put it so bluntly to you, but this is the reality you have to grasp before you can understand what it is you have to do have a realistic chance of rivaling UKIP or even being in a position to do deals with them.
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22 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2 · Remove Preview
Claire Khaw So this is what I suggest:

1. Discuss amongst yourselves whether I should be in the party.

2. Discuss amongst yourselves whether I would best serve the cause by being appointed BDP Media Spokesman.

Just doing that would make a difference in no time at all.

No canvassing or leafleting or fund-raising required.

Only discussion and decision!

I really would be happy to answer your questions in this regard.
David King Firstly. Dont you dare question my intelligence or understanding of the situation. Who the hell do you think you are ?

If you were intelligent enough to have read my last post correctly, you will see that my comment did not recommended Richard as party leader but called for someone with his qualities.

As for Griffin appealing to the masses, his appeal has seen the massive growth of the BNP and its current day collapse as people have in time seen through him and his inadequacies.
He will, I have no doubt, lose his seat at the next election and thanks to his conniving, trickery, lies and lack of sparkling personality or ability to perform in front of millions of tv viewers (question time), the BNP will become a distant memory.
Griffin's bubble has burst.
Now take your insults, smug and patronising comments elsewhere as you have now wasted enough of my time
22 hours ago via mobile · Like · 2
Claire Khaw Who in nationalism has the qualities you ask for in a leader, David?
Claire Khaw I think Nick Griffin will keep his seat no problem in the 2014 MEP elections. Why do you think he might not?
Claire Khaw I have taken great care not to insult anyone but there is nothing I can do if you are determined to take offence. The fact remains that none of you have any new ideas. I do see that you would rather do nothing than consider seriously anything I have to suggest, because I am not one of you.

There is not much point being one of you either because I have already noticed that nationalists are not exactly known for treating each other well.

And that is why nationalism will never get anywhere.

I am only taking an interest because I see the Eurosceptic parties as being the only parties left in the country that might promote social conservatism, selective education, be against gay marriage as well as wanting criminals to be punished properly.

It would be nice if nationalists could get their act together instead of just being losers who are nasty, destructive, racist as well as out of ideas. By appearing to be all of the above, we make all the things we ask for seem undesirable and unwise.
Claire Khaw

Time is running out, people.

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Claire Khaw The Asians don't have anti-miscegenation laws. It is enough for them to have honour killing, it seems.

It is all about parental and masculine authority, which you cannot retain if you don't respect the institution of marriage.

The reason why marriage is no longer respected is because so many people think they can still respect marriage even if they as they married parents the same as unmarried couples and say it is OK to have gay marriage.

But if you treat them the same then it means there is no practical difference between getting married and not getting married and it is cheaper and easier not to get married at all, isn't it?

The other thing is the welfare state. If there is no welfare state then people would keep in touch with their family a bit more as well as stay married to their spouses.

The state is the "husband" of the unmarried single mother. This means that the taxpayer is her "husband" who has all the responsibilities but none of the rights.

Something isn't quite right here, but does the BNP or the BDP ever discuss such things?
16 hours ago · Like


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