I agree. Nice article David Benkof. I should have wroted it foist.
The shift in tone that Pope Francis is bringing to the Catholic Church has serious repercussions for people who follow that religion – but also those of other faith systems. As the most prominent re
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  • 2 people like this.
  • Claire Khaw You cannot be serious!!!!
    12 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw http://www.firstthings.com/.../catholicism-sex-and-marriage
    The Extraordinary Synod on the Family issued an interim “relatio” yesterday. This is a document . . . .
  • Claire Khaw And you an Orthodox Rabbi too! Oy vey.
    12 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw The document also criticizes pressure by the United Nations and some Western nations to compel countries in Africa and elsewhere to rescind laws that restrict the rights of gay people, in exchange for financial aid. It says it is unacceptable “that international bodies make financial aid dependent on the introduction of regulations inspired by gender ideology.”

    In remarkably conciliatory language, a synod of...
  • David Benkof My essay was about personal style, not policy issues. You could just as easily criticize his views on abortion or women's ordination. But to me, he nonetheless is a model of religious leadership we can all learn from.
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw I may not be an adherent of any of the Abrahamic faiths, but I at least know that the morality that the Abrahamic faiths are known to promote is not synonymous with PC Liberalism. 

    The purpose of the Abrahamic morality is to maintain the patriarchy 
    through the institution of marriage, which necessarily means the prohibition of extramarital sex. 

    Feminism and liberalism is about precisely the opposite, and that is why now live in a matriarchy. 

    All advanced civilisations are patriarchal, and all declining and primitive civilisations are matriarchies. 

    Balaam (Hebrew: בִּלְעָם, Standard Bilʻam Tiberian...
  • David Benkof Claire, if you think Catholicism under Pope Francis - or the kind of Orthodox Judaism I practice - is "PC Liberalism," then you're not paying attention.
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Nick Landau Claire, that must be something of a record - 5 posts in a go without reply - even I haven't done that.
    11 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw The Rabbi has gone to bed, clearly.
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw I have just read your Wikipedia entry. 

    David Benkof (born David Bianco in 1970) is an American journalist-entrepreneur. He was raised in St. Louis, Missouri and then went to college at Stanford University, where he came out as gay his freshman year. In 1989 he served as the international president of United Synagogue Youth.[1]
  • David Benkof OK.... (by the way I did not write it and there are several untruths in it) What is your point?
    10 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw What was written about you suggests that you would be in favour of lower standards of sexual morality when in fact, because they are now so low, greater rigour is required: that is my point.
    10 hrs · Like
  • David Benkof Claire, I am a gay man who became a celibate Orthodox Jew. Most Orthodox Jews consider that a far higher standard of sexual morality than any one else in our community, certainly gay but possibly even straight. I just don't get where you got your idea from.
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • Daniel Hope A good listen http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm36w
    Is Francis the 'revolutionary' Pope that his admirers...
    10 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw This sounds rather like the Anglican position on openly gay priests claiming to be celibate who can become bishops ... 

    Gay clergy in civil partnerships will be allowed to...
  • David Benkof What a strange article! But what's wrong with it? If they're not having sex but just living together, how is that different from two best friends who are roommates?
    10 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw Orthodox Rabbis are the equivalent of the Catholic Church in Judaism, are they not?
    10 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw Because no one really believes that they are not banging each other.
    10 hrs · Like
  • David Benkof I don't think those are parallel.
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw Being openly gay, living with your "best friend" who is also gay, while claiming you are not having sex is stretching the credulity of your flock a bit far. Best not to make such demands on them.
    10 hrs · Like
  • David Benkof Oh, I agree with you 100%. That's why it seems so strange to me!
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • David Benkof Lots of Orthodox gay guys who have "husbands" and "partners" like to say "You don't know what we do in our bedroom, if anything!" It's literally laughable.
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw It is laughable that there are grown men who are educated and rabbis who think they can have their cake and eat it. Is this expression familiar to you?
    10 hrs · Like
  • 10 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw The best policy is if homosexual acts are treated as sexual offences. Then anyone who is gay will just shut up about it. 

    The "Don't ask any questions and we'll tell you no lies" policy should be the best deal for homosexuals. 

    The moment they say they are gay they will no longer be tolerated, and punishment of the law should follow.

    If that were the case then we would never have gone down the slippery slope of the civil partnership leading inexorably to the abomination of gay marriage and the further abomination of openly gay bishops.

    At this rate ISIS will be at our gates beheading the overwhelming majority of the Lords Spiritual in the Upper House. 


    'That this Synod affirms that the biblical and traditional teaching on chastity and fidelity in personal relationships in a response to, and expression of, God's love for each one of us, and in particular affirms: 

    that sexual intercourse is an act of total commitment which belongs properly within a permanent married relationship;
    that fornication and adultery are sins against this ideal, and are to be met by a call to repentance and the exercise of compassion;
    that homosexual genital acts also fall short of this ideal, and are likewise to be met by a call to repentance and the exercise of compassion;
    that all Christians are called to be exemplary in all spheres of morality, including sexual morality; and that holiness of life is particularly required of Christian leaders.'
    Outlines the development of thinking in the Church of England about teaching on homosexual activity from...
  • David Benkof Oy, I really really disagree with you. I'm going to end my participation in this conversation.
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw The Torah does say what it says about what God thinks of homosexuality though. 

    The subject of homosexual behavior and Judaism...
  • Nick Landau David, regarding a definition from freedictionary dot com " (Journalism & Publishing) a written composition on a subject, often being one of several found in a magazine, newspaper, etc" I might observe that even in the UK - other than in the Economist - we don't have fact checkers so that it is quite possible (not likely) that the "facts" that you read in a UK newspaper article are not true, so that even a news item - how I would refer to a small piece - not an article. An article would be such as a feature article, or an in-depth article on a subject eg the Scottish Referendum.
    10 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw So, we now know the fallen state of sexual morality amongst Orthodox Jews and Catholics. Even Catholics and Orthodox Jews think their religion is no more and no less than the PC Liberalism the matriarchal Western governments promote. What other viable source of social conservatism is there left in the West?
    10 hrs · Like
  • David Benkof Interesting, Nick!
    9 hrs · Like
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons David you have now encountered my resident Fascist. Wise man not to engage.
    5 hrs · Like
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar, please keep to my two post rule. Five, Cliar, is a flagrant breach.
    5 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw The arguments I make are contained in the links I have posted for your consideration, which it seems none of you have so far read. 

    There are none so blind as those who will not see. Oy vey.
    3 hrs · Edited · Like
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons Nothing so daft as someone trying to be cliché Jewish when they're not even paternally Jewish.
    2 hrs · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw Why don't you address my point about the sexual liberation of Jews? Is this something that you encourage, Rabbi? I don't have to be Jewish to know that your religion forbids this.
    2 hrs · Like
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons Huh? No time festival coming.
    2 hrs · Like
  • Patrick Morrow From what I've read (adverts prevent reading the whole) a good article. Thank you. Some errors e.g. Francis has used the 'popemobile' similarly to his predecessors, ie when passing by in procession/on display. No pope used it as a means of getting from a to b. Hope to read whole thing in due course.
    2 hrs · Like
  • Patrick Morrow Chag sameach
    2 hrs · Like
  • Claire Khaw Wow, so utterly utterly determined not to discuss the sexual liberation of Jews and whether it is good or bad for them!
    1 hr · Like
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons No so focused on today's tasks.
    1 hr · Like
  • Patrick Morrow May you be signed, sealed and delivered for a good year Rav!
    1 hr · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw We already know you are the liberal wing of Orthodox Judaism, Rabbi. You suffer from the same moral malaise as the Catholic Church - creeping liberalisation and living for the day.
    1 hr · Like
  • Claire Khaw Suddenly, on this thread about Catholicism, all your interfaith Facebook friends who are just as neurotically frightened of discussing sexual morality are wishing you a happy holiday. I wonder why.
    1 hr · Like
  • Patrick Morrow Claire, you're neither an Orthodox Jew nor a Catholic Christian, right?
    1 hr · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw No, I am not, but I am a socially concerned social conservative, and have noticed that in the West there is no source of social conservatism, unless you count Islam as a source ....
    1 hr · Like
  • Patrick Morrow Then I will continue to turn to Orthodox Jews to uncover Orthodox Jewish integrity, and to Catholic Christians to uncover Catholic Christian integrity, and pay little attention to someone who claims to know what each 'should' be saying, while rejecting both. If one mistakes 'choosing not to rise to the bait of x' with being 'neurotically frightened' - on a religious feast day to boot - that suggests to me a modicum of narcissism. Chag sameach.
    1 hr · Like · 1
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons Patrick what a firm but friendly post. Cliar, you have been well answered. You are such a hypocrite, making demands and issuing dictates which you haven't the conviction to subscribe to yourself.
    1 hr · Edited · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw I certainly have sufficient evidence that none of you wish to discuss whether sexual liberation harms Jews and Christians. 

    Christians are morally and intellectually weaker because they are more sexually liberated are supposed to believe in the absurdity of the Trinity, are they not?

    I know Jews will not agree with me here for fear of offending Christians, but they will secretly agree with me.
    1 hr · Like
  • Patrick Morrow Ah no Claire... I know they secretly agree with me! Aren't secret agreements do helpful in a debate?
    1 hr · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw We know that most interfaith religious leaders are libtards, and libtards are people who stubbornly believe that consensual sex between adults has no adverse long term consequences for society, whatever the evidence says.
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar if you post ad hominem insults here I will edit you.
    58 mins · Edited · Like
  • Patrick Morrow I wish you well, Claire. You don't have to do this.
    57 mins · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw No one here has shown any desire to discuss whether the sexual liberation of Jews and Christians is good for Jews and Christians. 

    I am suggesting that Jews and Christians are afraid of Muslims precisely because they already know that Muslims are not as morally and intellectually weakened by sexual liberation and fear of criticising single mothers.
    ...See More
    53 mins · Edited · Like
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar please stick to the original topic. Outside posts will be deleted from now on.
    53 mins · Like · 1
  • Claire Khaw The original topic is the liberal attitude of the Pope towards acts which ought to be considered sexual offences by all the Abrahamic faiths, is it not?
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons No it is not. Read the article. It is how we treat people while retaining our socially conservative ways. A subject you should understand and appreciate.
    50 mins · Like · 2
  • Patrick Morrow I still can't read the article, but what I read was about accessibility and humility. Good themes.
  • Rabbi Zvi Solomons It says he is accessible traditional merciful and respectful.
  • Patrick Morrow Thank you. That seems right. He's also utterly committed to Jewish-Christian reconciliation. (I take it David isn't coming to UK Limmud, do you know?)
  • David Benkof I object strongly to the word "libtards," as it is a clear reference to a term that is extremely demeaning to people with intellectual disabilities. I mean, if you're going to insult any group, you have to go with one that suffers so greatly? Awful. Rabbi, I recommend you ask Claire to edit it or that you remove her comment - just as you might if she had used any other disgusting slur. But it's your wall, of course.
    9 mins · Like