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Saturday, 28 February 2015

John Sawers another Neocon who thinks Islam should fit in with Western liberal values

Neoconning Sir John Sawers, ex-MI6 chief, warns of Russia 'danger'
Patrick Buchanan challenges the hegemonist vision of US foreign policy and cites warnings from history

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b053rz5c

From 47th minute

Until a few months ago Sir John Sawers was the chief of the Secret Intelligence Service MI6 - he led it for five years - a period which included the beginning of the war in Syria -- a conflict that thousands of fighters from western Europe are thought to have joined. Sir John is now chairman of Macro Advisory Partners - and has been speaking to this programme in his first interview since leaving office.

From 1:34 minute:

There are 'several thousand' individuals in the UK of concern to the security services - that is the assessment of the former chief of the Secret Intelligence Service Sir John Sawers - now Chairman of Macro Advisory Partners - in an interview with this programme. The number raises questions about the tactics used to identify and monitor such individuals. The Conservative MP David Davis is calling today for the emphasis to be on prosecuting rather than disrupting the lives of suspects. We hear again from Sir John Sawers.

MS:

There are several thousand individuals of concern to the security services, that is the assessment of the former chief of the Secret Intelligence Service Sir John Sawers - now Chairman of Macro Advisory Partners. In an interview with this programme he has talked about this number which raises questions about tactics used to identify and monitor such individuals. The Conservative MP David Davis is calling today for the emphasis to be on prosecuting rather than disrupting the lives of suspects, I asked Sir John about the arguments about the treatment of Mohammed Emwazi and Lee Rigby's killer Michael Adebolajo may have played a role in their radicalisation.

Sir John:

In general I think that is a very specious argument. These people draw attention to themselves because of their activity, their participation in extremist and sometimes terrorist circles so of course they draw attention to themselves. But the very idea that being spoken to by MI5 is a radicalising act ...  I think this is a very false and very transparent.

MS:

But there are judgements that these agencies have to make all the time on individuals in deciding whether they are someone you want to try to win over or whether they are someone who will never be on our side and has therefore to be watched very closely at the very least.

Sir John:

That's true. Intelligence Services are there to gather intelligence and so identifying sources are a very high priority but when you can't gather intelligence the second priority is to disrupt and prevent them and deter them from going ahead with plans to go to terrorist camps or mix with extremist circles where they might get weapons training or whatever.

MS:

There's a lot that has been said about how people are radicalised and increasingly now we hear about the Internet perhaps more than anything else. A lot less seems to be understood about why people are being radicalised and why people are being radicalised in Europe in the numbers you are speaking about - several thousand extremists in this country. Why do you think that young British Muslims appear to be vulnerable in this way?

Sir John:

I am not an expert in this area. I headed the Overseas Intelligence Agency MI6 not the Domestic Security Agency MI5,

MS:

But the two have come closer, haven't they?

Sir John:

They have come closer but obviously understanding and penetrating terrorist organisations was what MI6 has been doing. But you ask why people are radicalised. There are two main answers: one is that people in this country are not as integrated as we would like them to be. Other religions whether they are Hindus or Sikhs or Jews are very well-integrated into this country, Muslims are less well-integrated and there are a number of social and economic factors that are related to that. The second problem relates to Islam itself, and there are many competing branches of Islam, there are schisms there: Shia and Sunni, different branches of Shia and Sunni Islam and many of this goes back to interpretations of doctrine and decisions taken in the first century of the religion. The Islamic religion as a whole is not well-geared to reviving and modernising itself so it meets the values and norms of 21st century society so there is a big political challenge which can only be taken up by leaders in the Islamic world.

MS:

And yet it is such a pressing issue for society in this country. For example we ran a poll of opinion this week amongst British Muslims in which 20% said Western liberal society can never be compatible with Islam.

Sir John:

I hope that's not the case. I certainly don't believe it is the case. In many ways the principles of Islam are similar to the principles of Christianity and Judaism. They are three very similar religions which have developed in similar ways but I think the idea that different religions are incompatible is simply not true.

MS:

But if that is the view that is held in that way then surely that is not just a debate for leaders in the Muslim world to sort out. This is a debate we need to have in this country. These are views we need to address in this country.

Sir John:

We do and I agree. The point I was trying to make was that we can't solve the problems inside Islam and if the West tries to it could well be counter-productive. Ultimately, if Islam is to go through some process of modernisation, of resolving some of its historic differences and doing it at a political level rather than a religious level then it has got to come from out of the Islamic world.




Clearly, neither of them have heard of Secular Koranism! It is explained at http://thevoiceofreason-ann.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/secular-koranism.html



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