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Wednesday, 8 March 2017

Secular Koranism is the antidote to anti-Semitism

This is the offence:
"Denying claims of anti-Semitism Dr Gould quoted Edward W. Said: "The task of criticism...is to make distinctions...To oppose Zionism in Palestine has never meant, and does not now mean, being anti-Semitic.""
It's Palestine? Dr Gould writes Israel out of the story. That's inherently antisemitic.




Claire Khaw You do know that the more Jews complain about anti-Semitism, the more people will hate Jews, don't you?

The more you succeed in repressing the right of the gentile to express their views on Jews *in their own land*, the more they will hate you.

I really don't know what you people think you can achieve by calling for ever more repressive laws against the gentile *in his own land*.

I had thought Jews were a clever and wise people. A clever and wise people would know that laws forbidding gentiles from hating Jews *in their own land* would only provoke and generate the very hatred they are trying to suppress.

Perhaps the gentile will one day accuse Jews of provoking anti-Semitism against themselves and then they will be hoist by their own petard.
Barnaby Marder Of course, anti-Semitism is always the fault of the Jews isn't it. Personally, I've always tended to the view that anti-Semitism is the fault of anti-Semites.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw The worlds of Mandy Rice Davis come to mind.
Andrew Crosbie
Andrew Crosbie There is a word in Scots that describes you and Dr Gould. Toerag. Translated: a stinking piece of rag on the foot. If we are stupid and sit back and allow anti-semitism to flourish we could be criticised. I have no intention of remaining quiet. Gould is paid indirectly from the public purse. She should be sacked.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw The free speech of the goyim is nothing to you, I suppose.
Barnaby Marder
Barnaby Marder I don't believe in absolute free speech. I'm not a libertarian & have never claimed to be one.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar why are you using hate tropes? On my page?
Alexandra N Boyd
Alexandra N Boyd So shall we and our children just take it and back down ?
Would you do this If you were at the receiving end of the stick Claire ?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Rabbi Zvi Solomons What do you mean by "hate tropes"?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Alexandra N Boyd You either believe in free speech or you don't. So you're saying Jews are beyond criticism? What have they done to deserve this status?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons "The free speech of the goyim is nothing to you, I suppose."
I've never heard a Jew say such a thing -"of the goyim" forsooth. You're creating an alien language which you seem to want to father on us.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw You know exactly what I mean. Should I have said "gentile" instead?
Alexandra N Boyd
Alexandra N Boyd I believe in free speech but if your free speech is used to bully and call out people then it's only right for people to defend themselves
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw By getting them imprisoned. Why do you even bother pretending not to know why you are hated?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar, you're projecting. As I said I don't know of any Jews who make such distinctions in such terms on such a subject.
Alexandra N Boyd
Alexandra N Boyd Hate is a very strong word

Hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a rat....See more
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar most people learn hatred. That's not an opinion by the way. It's proven. The only way to deal with learned hatred is to meet people from the group you are so scared of.

The hatred of Jews has many origins. I suggest you read "Anti-Judaism" by Prof David Niren. It's a good study of the phenomenon of which you appear to be a part.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw I don't hate you people, Rabbi. It's not me who hates you.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw How curious that you have no understanding of how your behaviour is perceived by others at all. Absolutely no idea. A lack of imagination, perhaps.
Alexandra N Boyd
Alexandra N Boyd Claire Khaw "you people" sounds very cold , I am sure you as an intelligent person could have worded this in a kinder way ?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Anyone who uses "You people" is not my friend.

You want me to blame myself for brainless hatred. No way! You're a moron.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw I am sorry you don't like my tone. Am I required to always address you people in humble tones of self-abnegation or else be accused of anti-Semitism?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw What am I presuming?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar the next time you use that term on my page you're blocked. It would be a shame to go over that line but I have limits. Stop baiting Jews.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Claire Khaw "you people" sounds very cold , I am sure you as an *intelligent* person could have worded this in a kinder way ?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw I am allowed to say "you people" to gentiles, but not to Jews? I am supposed to treat Jews as above gentiles?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons I've never seen you use it except to Jews. This is now red lined.

You are this photo.

Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Do you read every comment I have ever made?

How do you know I don't say it to blacks, Muslims, feminists, Islamophobes, nationalists or LGBTs or any group of people at all?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Have you, Cliar? I have never seen you.

But this is off topic. And I have a rule about that too. :).
Barnaby Marder
Barnaby Marder Can't imagine where he got that poster from
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Thanks coz. Very useful.
Alexandra N Boyd
Alexandra N Boyd You are very good at trying to twist a persons written word Claire , that is very sad , I am sure there is no need for that ?
Anyway I am out of this
I have a good conversation going with my nearly 4 year old and I can promise you it is much more important to hear her opinion on things that happened in her day than waste my time on a lady who twists and turns things !
I wish you a very nice evening!
Adina Judith
Adina Judith Claire Khaw If you go back through that and replace the word Jews with black people, would you consider the statement to be fine?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons She's not interested.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons "You people." The othering of your opponent is poor debate. It's racism in action.

"Calling for ever more oppressive laws." Where?Please explain this to my weak head.

Fascist scum often accuse Jews of causing hatred of Jews. It's a common tactic of the moron bigot.
Claire Khaw
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar I don't know what she did. But denying the Holocaust should not be a crime. Professor Deborah E. Lipstadt also holds this position.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Denying the Holocaust should not be treated as a crime, but you lose all your other rights because everything will be rigged against you from then on. Yep.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Why? Nobody can take such a person seriously. It's no different from denying the roundness of the world or that electricity is electrons and not little people running around.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Here is the real sting which may get a conviction:

"Other lines are said to have been: 'History repeats itself, no limit to our wealth, thanks to your debts we're bleeding you dry.

- who could that be?

'We control your media, control all your books and TV, with the daily lies we're feeding, suffering victimisation.

-who could that be?

'Sheeple have no realisation, you shall pay, all the way, until the break of day.'

TBH I would have ignored her song. It will now get more hits. Call this person an antisemite, using tropes of antisemitism. That's quite acceptable.
Barnaby Marder
Barnaby Marder I'm in favour of making Holocaust denial a specific offence as it is in some other countries.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Nope. It's better to deride the morons.
Alan Bowker
Alan Bowker Victims , victims, victims. Will it NEVER end?
Adina Judith
Adina Judith @alan bowker are you saying Jews play the victim wrt antisemitism,?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Wow, it is now racist and anti-Semitic to say "you people"! Just listen to yourself.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar it always was racist. I always raise this with you. You're becoming tedious.
Barnaby Marder
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons As you know I have her as an e"friend" for purposes of information and instruction -a kind of memento moroni. She's less instructive than some of the other fascists though.
Barnaby Marder
Barnaby Marder Memento moroni is one of the best things I've ever seen from you.
Claire Khaw
Rabbi Zvi Solomons I wonder what Daniel Leons-Marder thinks of this.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw I am glad we are moving towards a more focused discussion on this.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons If Jews find your words antisemitic then you are an antisemite. Just asvif blacks or asians find your words racist. Or gays find your words homophobic.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw The state should just allow us to hate whoever we want to hate for whatever reason without presuming to think it can even forbid it.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Arthur Weiss instead of Remoaning can you explain this to a Cliar of little brain?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar It does. As long as you don't go out and incite others.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder I won't engage with Khaw. However, the article is stupid in that the question for the court is whether in the course of her Antisemitic statements, she has crossed the criminal threshold. Not whether she is Antisemitic.

Anyone who does not see how she is Antisemitic is beyond help.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw I am saying that anti-Semitism should not be thoughtcrime.

I am saying that in a free society there should be no thoughtcrime legislation at all.

There is no law that forbids people from thinking anti-Semitic thoughts or saying anti-Semitic things, actually.

Why won't you engage with me, Daniel?

I am rather flattered that you dare not engage with me.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder It will be noted by reasonable observers that there is no proposal to do such a thing coming from the CAA, but merely an intention to bring a citizen who may have crossed the criminal threshold before a court of law.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw If the prosecution succeeds, then Holocaust Denial will in fact amount to the offence of being grossly offensive, which is getting what you want through another door.

This will not go unnoticed.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder Ohhhhh big words from a complete failure whose only achievements involve being thrown out of multiple political parties.

It will be noted that the Court will only rule if a law has been broken, not write new law.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder Who's going to notice? Your loser friends from the BNP?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw If Holocaust Denial is considered to be grossly offensive, you have a Holocaust Denial law. I think you can understand that even as a law student.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder Not really. Driving one's own car out of a repair joint has been ruled as theft. It doesn't make it always the case. You don't understand how common law works, clearly.

You are also an , unrepentant and irrelevant ex BNP member and unworthy of anything but ridicule.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Theft to be made out requires intention. We are talking about whether a Holocaust Denial law should exist. Please stick to the point.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder I don't let BNP lowlives dictate conversations. The case will scrutinise whether her holocaust denial falls within the definition of an existing law, just as R v Turner determined whether or not the D's actions fell within the definition of an existing law.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Holocaust Denial is like climate change denial or the debate on whether God exists. It is reasonable to take the contrary view. Most people in this world are not Jews. It's just something to bear in mind, that's all, when you are behaving and thinking in this knee-jerk Judeo-centric way.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Daniel you need to stick to your resolution: if you are determined not to engage, then don't engauge
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw It is better for young Daniel to engage than not engage, Rabbi.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder Rabbi Zvi Solomons it's difficult to see someone completely pervert the very idea of...well, law. But you're right - I have no more desire to converse with illiterate hate-mongers.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw How have I perverted the law?

How have I "monged" hate?

In what way am I "illiterate"?
Arthur Weiss
Arthur Weiss Rabbi Zvi Solomons I'm not remoaning. I'm supporting democracy against tyranny ;)
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Oh changed your mind then, eh? Not before time.
Arthur Weiss
Arthur Weiss Rabbi Zvi Solomons No - I'm complaining about making decisions of this magnitude on statistical blips where a 2% swing would change the vote. That's not democratic. That's despotic!
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Oh the despotism of democracy.

Not the topic here alas.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Adina Judith
Adina Judith You're not an anti-Semite because Jews hate you.

Your behaviour/words are anti-Semitic because you believe Jews deserve or provoke the antisemitism they experience. It is anti-Semitic to believe that Jews shouldn't stand up against bias and should be grateful and a bit meek because it's not really their country
Claire Khaw It doesn't matter what reason you hate me as long as you hate me. Because you hate me, I am anti-Semitic ...
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar you're a Chinese Malay. Glass house. Stone. Do you deserve racial abuse merely for being ethnically different?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Racially I am identifiable as IC5.

I cannot stop people from saying what they want about me, can I?

Or should I be allowed to stop people criticising me or my race?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC_codes


of a suspect. Originating in the late 1970s, the codes are based on a police officer's perceived view of an individual's ethnicity based on a visual assessment, as opposed to that individual's self-definition.
en.wikipedia.org
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Depends what they are doing doesn't it.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw What might whom be using to do what?
Adina Judith
Adina Judith Firstly, I don't hate you. I'd even guess that most on this thread don't hate *you* as a person.

So let's discuss views and statements, not people.

If I have understood you, you think that if people who are Jewish hate your views for any reason, those people will accuse you of anti-Semitism.

Can we think about this the other way around:

If you hate me, do you assume I'm necessarily anti-IC5 prejudiced?

If not, then your statement implies Jews allege anti-Semitism when it's not there.

Think about something else: I am a person who is Jewish. Let's say I hate your opinion on mental health or asylum or football teams. Does that make you anti-Semitic?

Finally, perhaps I am reading this the wrong way. Perhaps you are telling me that as long as I hate you, you will choose to remain anti-Semitic. I believe I can solve that problem as I do not hate you. With our shared humanity as common ground, perhaps we should meet up for a cup of tea? I'd love to get to know you and I hope you'd enjoy meeting a person who is Jewish. What do you think?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw I actually have Jewish friends, you know! But happy to meet despite your leftist views.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Friends do not indicate lack of prejudice.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Ooooh! Can I join you?! I'll ref.
Adina Judith
Adina Judith It's not leftist to say that putting victims at fault for the bullying they receive is wrong. You wuldnt allow it in a school playground so why do you do it here?

I am indeed a leftist, but why here?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Ahem, she would allow it in the school playground. This is the woman who would expose any disabled offspring she bore.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Rabbi Zvi Solomons Everyone has a tendency to prejudge things according to their preconceptions, including you, too, Rabbi.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Adina Judith Sticks and stones may break my bones ....
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Rabbi Zvi Solomons I see no reason why I should not express my reluctance to bring up disabled offspring.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Cliar you're not prejudiced. That would be a mild symptom. You're deluded.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Rabbi Zvi Solomons It would be a pleasure to meet you too, Rabbi! Where shall we three meet?
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Rabbi Zvi Solomons On what matter am I deluded?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Much politics.

We could invite Arthur Weiss.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Have either of you met Adina?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Of course. I must have known her for some 19 years.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw How gallant of you both to offer to protect her from me, as if I would do her harm if I met her on my own.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Harm her?

I'm worried about you.
Arthur hasn't said notin
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw In what way are you worried about me?
Adina Judith
Adina Judith He's worried I'll kill you with kindness and take your views to pieces one sting at a time.

He's worried for you that I'll make u a lover not a hater, just like me :)...See more
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw Whatever you prefer, dear!
Nimraj Bansal
Nimraj Bansal Adina Judith You'll never manage to get me to meditate!
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Nope. I'm worried that she'll get depressed that she's wasted years of her life on worthless ideas and might need help getting over that thought.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw You think social conservatism is a worthless idea, Rabbi?
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons you're not a social conservative, you're an atavism.
Claire Khaw
Claire Khaw What do you mean?
Dan Rickman
Dan Rickman Is there a link to the article
Baruch Solomon
Baruch Solomon "It's Palestine? Dr Gould writes Israel out of the story. That's inherently antisemitic."

No Zvi. Dr Gould was not writing Israel out of the story. He was quoting Edward Said. Edward Said may nor may not be guilty of "inherent antisemitism" but to accuse Dr. Gould of "writing Israel out of the story" is at best lazy thinking and at worst intellectually dishonest.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Well that's exactly where we disagree. Saying the words "opposing Zionism in Palestine" is inherently antisemitic. It denies that Israel is there, and at the same time denies that it has a right to be there. It's the ultimate revisionist argument: we wish things weren't so, so the are therefore not so. It's damaging to live in such fantasy.
Claire Khaw Saying you oppose something is acknowledging its existence.
Baruch Solomon
Baruch Solomon My point is that Dr. Gould didn't say it; he quoted someone who did, and ostensibly at least, his reason for quoting Said was not to advocate renaming Israel Palestine but to distinguish between opposition to Zionism and antisemitism.

Again, if you want to call Dr Gould anti-semitic for opposing Zionism then fair enough but it isn't fair to imply that he, rather than Edward Said, wrote out Israel.
Baruch Solomon
Baruch Solomon Sorry, I didn't read your last comment properly. You were talking about "opposing Zionism in Israel" this time. I don't personally believe you have to be antisemitic to be anti-Zionist but it helps.
Baruch Solomon
Baruch Solomon Wait a minute, I didn't read it right this time either. Anyway, I think you get where I stand.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons I was going to say…
Aron Sterk
Aron Sterk I disagree. In quoting Said, Gould was giving an "authority" for HER own position. Opposing zionism in 'Palestine' means opposing Jewish self-determination in Israel. It is exactly the writing out of the legitimacy of Israel and is antisemitic.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons She was quoting said being antisemitic to justify her own antisemitism. I'm with Aron.
Aron Sterk
Aron Sterk Indeed, just backing you up as an academic who is tired of this garbage.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons Muddled thinking and illogic is no defence for hate crime.
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder Three professors, all of whom know nothing at all about antisemitism and have never had a real job in their lives"
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder These people just exist in their tiny, state-subsidised, far left bubble. Having three letters after your name is meaningless unless they happened to write their thesis on contemporary antisemitism
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Rabbi Zvi Solomons I've got five letters from one degree and six from my first. But they don't qualify me as an expert in brain surgery.
Daniel Leons-Marder
Daniel Leons-Marder They do get you two module exemptions on the GDL though :)
Aron Sterk
Aron Sterk It is rather depressing the way 'Jews' trot out to defend antisemitism.
James Mendelsohn
James Mendelsohn Often it is Trot Jews who trot out!
Rabbi Zvi Solomons
Aron Sterk
Aron Sterk On the plus side I am glad to see that this government is taking seriously that denial of Jewish self-determination in Israel is inherently antisemitic.
Aron Sterk
Aron Sterk I see the three academics supporting this shamelessly use the fact that they lost family in the Shoah to 'privilege' their own antizionism ...



As you can see, the debate just went round and round and got nowhere.

It is easier, in my view, to simply start from the position that Jews are indeed a superior race. This then perfectly explains why they are hated: because they are envied.






The gentile's hatred of Jews is simply the hatred a bad student has for a good student and the reason why swots are bullied, get their glasses broken and their books torn up by the school bully.

It will never be eradicated because human nature is what it is. There will be the school dunce and there will be the school swot. There is no point making everyone Jewish because not everyone wants to or can be Jewish, and because Judaism is far too high maintenance for the degenerate gentile.

One cannot help thinking that people who are stupid tend to get exploited anyway and there is certainly no doubt that Christianity does make people stupid and exploitable. Christians are so stupid that they don't seem to know that Christianity is kaput and no longer fit for purpose.

Not only does Christianity make people stupid, feminism and democracy make them even more hopelessly degenerate, moronic and imbecilic. Not only are the gentile politicians of democracies stupid, they are expected to work even harder, because they are both expected to govern and pander to the idiotic beliefs and demands of the electorate. The only surprise is that such a system has not already imploded under both its combined external and internal pressures.

If Western nations are being always exploited by Jews they have only themselves to blame.

Let me tell you this: if China decided to have a multi-party system, it would soon be having a Jewish problem too.

Islam tries to drag Christians up from their degenerate stupidity by postulating that the law should be in harmony with morality and morality in harmony with Koranic principles. Koranic principles are really not that different from Biblical principles since both are about promoting patriarchal moral values.

Even better, Islam forbids usury, which would at one stroke curtail Jewish power over the gentile by allowing the gentile to declare an Islamic Revolution and thereby default on all his debts incurred with Jewish financiers contracted under the Godforsaken system of fractional reserve banking.

A one-party theocracy governed under the principles of  Secular Koranism would make Jews better Jews and Christians less helplessly stupid, immoral, sexually liberated, hypocritical, gaily married and corrupt. Churches would of course be allowed to worship freely and Christians in Britain would continue to be allowed to believe in the absurdity that Christ is simultaneously God Himself and His Son, but the Church of England itself will have to be disestablished in one final act of separation of Church and State. The monarch can continue to be the Head of this Church if she or he wants, and I am sure Charles will make something of this role when his time finally comes.

When you have eliminated the impossible ie Judaism and Christianity as a religion considered capable of maintaining the morals of the gentile, then what's left, however improbable, must be the answer ie Islam.  

If Islam is "Judaism Lite", then Secular Koranism is "Islam Lite".

Think of Secular Koranism as the Chicken Tikka Masala of religion I have specially concocted to suit Western tastes.

Glasgow 'invented' Tikka Masala

Why some old timers might think Jews helped whip up the war fever that lost the British their empire 

Are you an anti-Semite just because Jews hate you? 

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