Ken Livingstone, live on LBC at 10am - don’t miss a second of it: https://t.co/HWuSbgwZRr pic.twitter.com/lxLQDH55gn— LBC (@LBC) April 30, 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Territories_considered
Territories considered
Throughout the first decade of the Zionist movement, there were several instances where Zionist figures supported a Jewish state in places outside Palestine, such as Uganda and Argentina.
If you want to send a Jew somewhere out of your country this would mean giving them a Jewish homeland. At one time Madagascar and Uganda amongst others was being proposed as the Jewish homeland.
http://www.jailingopinions.com/birobidjan.htm
Technically Naz Shah MP is also a Zionist , because she remains a supporter of a Jewish homeland, just not in Israel.
We all know that there are actually more Jews in America than in Israel, don't we?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country
If you support a Jewish homeland - whatever your reasons for doing so - then you are a Zionist.
Being a Zionist doesn't mean you are necessarily well-disposed towards Jews, just as you don't have necessarily have good intentions towards a woman just because you want to have sex with her. It could just mean you want Jews to have a place to go to after you kick them out of your country. This was basically Hitler's Madagascar Plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
You are arguably more considerate of Jewish welfare if you make arrangements for a new Jewish homeland than if you just kicked them out of your country, bag and baggage, without alternative accommodation.
How is making these points anti-Semitic? OK, Jews may get offended if you say these things because it brings back many unpleasant memories, but that doesn't mean you hate them, does it? If Jews hate you for saying things they don't like but which need to be said, does that turn you into an anti-Semite? Surely not, I would argue.
Jews being protected from offence will just make gentiles hate them even more, because they will understandably conclude that there is a Jewish conspiracy protecting Jews from having their feelings hurt or having jokes made about them, while the rest of us have to suffer it in silence.
As a libertarian, I don't think there should be thoughtcrime legislation against people hating other people. The more you tell people not to hate a certain group, the more they are likely to, just because the individual feels it is his right to hate whoever he wants to and naturally resents being told by the state whom he may or may not hate.
I am reminded of an episode of Fawlty Towers in which Basil Fawlty just couldn't stop himself from talking about the war when he had German guests even when he knew he mustn't because it would upset them.
I am also reminded of a time when blacks got all huffy and puffy when a white man used the word "niggardly" because they thought he was being rude about blacks because it sounded like "nigger".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22
It is so sad that even Jews have been dumbed down so much they don't even know the definition of Zionism. Technically, Naz Shah MP and Hitler are indeed Zionists. Even if we suspect Ken Livingstone of not regarding Jews as his favourite people, in a free society he has an absolute right to say what is after all true.
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
From 1:16 if you want to go straight to the Holocaust.
http://thevoiceofreason-ann.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/how-britain-lost-her-world-empire-and.html
@dr_shibley These days, to even discuss historical truths is anti-Semitism. Who gave Jews the right to censor debate in this way? #r4today— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@arthur_ascii This is not so much about Ken Livingstone alleged anti-Semitism but Jeremy Corbyn's cowardly betrayal of his principles.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson It is true that you are a Zionist if you support a Jewish Homeland and the Jewish Homeland does not have to be in Israel.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@KateVasey We shd appreciate politicians like @ken4london b4 they become extinct, who think they have a right to say something cos it's true— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london If it were not for Hitler's pogrom, Israel would never have been created.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london The Nazi's Madagascar Plan made in 1933 was presumably to be a considerate European neighbour.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london If Hitler wanted to expel the Jews, he needed to find a place for them to go.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london If Hitler expelled Jews without giving them alternative accommodation, there'd be a flood of refugees.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london The flood of Jewish refugees from Germany would have annoyed Germany's neighbours.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london It is worth discussing the fact that you don't have to like Jews to support a Jewish homeland.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london Why are Europeans more and more neurotic now about discussing Hitler now than just after the war?— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london u would have thought that further in time the British are from WW2 the easier it would b to discuss it— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london Why are the British getting more and more neurotic about discussing Israel, the Jews and Hitler?— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london Israel is still very much a live issue and its existence is not exactly undisputed.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU @ken4london Why can't a politician even talk about the beginnings of Israel without being ritually crucified?— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson @NickGriffinBU Israel was established in 1948. Why can't @ken4london talk about how it came into being in 2016, 58 years later?— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson You may know about Zionism, but clearly plenty of working politicians don't, judging by the hysteria of @JohnMannMP— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson You would have thought @ken4london was @NickGriffinBU himself, the way @JohnMannMP was behaving.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
@eddwilson John Mann received American Jewish Committee's Jan Karski Award 4 being their attack dog. Perhaps he wants anr pat on the head?— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
Jonathan @Freedland warns gentiles against saying "Jews" or "Zionists" unless in flattering terms. 25:24 https://t.co/pNVSUxmmpe #r4sunday— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 10, 2016
HOW TO PLAY THE ANTISEMITE GAME: 1) Accuse a player of anti-Semitism 2) Dismiss all his denials 3) Make him be rude to you 4) Win the game.— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) April 30, 2016
Just asked Ken Livingstone what point he was trying to make by bringing up Hitler - He tells me, "I can't remember."— Jason Farrell (@JasonFarrellSky) April 30, 2016
@JasonFarrellSky I know what @ken4london was trying to say: "You can be *both* an anti-Semite *and* a Zionist just like @NazShahBfd." Ooops!— Claire Khaw (@Patriarchalist) May 1, 2016
Questions for Dr Feldman and Shami Chakrabarti on anti-Semitism
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