1:15 PM
@OOOTLAM
"No agenda kind of Christianity" - what's that?
1:15 PM
@OOOTLAM
Or am I not allowed to ask people to define terms?
1:16 PM
@OOOTLAM
If no one will define their terms, does that mean no one is saying anything?
1:18 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
I am backstage waiting to ask Ian what he means by "no agenda kind of Christianity"?
1:18 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
What denomination is "no agenda kind of Christianity"?
1:18 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Any suggestions?
1:19 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Don't all denominations have an agenda?
1:19 PM
@βρεττς
You’re just backstage so you can record the video of Claire and then go on your channel and play it and complain
1:19 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Even non-denominational Christians have an agenda.
1:20 PM
@anselman3156
you are not listening closely Claire Pay attention Don't distract
1:20 PM
@daringhobbit
Yes, Claire, I agree. I am guessing he means political.
1:21 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
The difference between religion and politics is a distinction without a difference. .
1:21 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Which part of the Lateran Treaty negotiated between Mussolini and the Pope is religious and which part is political?
1:21 PM
@βρεττς
She like Kirk. Can’t listen just spout
1:22 PM
@anselman3156
That old Amish term has caught on!
1:22 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
I listened hard enough to Ian to ask my question.
1:22 PM
@βρεττς
Listen and wait to see what he means
1:23 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
So, Christians, which is the best denomination of all?
1:23 PM
@anselman3156
yes Listen to what else he says and that may help towards getting your answer
1:23 PM
@βρεττς
The Jesus is God ones
1:24 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Ian is talking about something else now and I have heard this before about how Christianity has failed him.
1:24 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Ian is Trinitarian.
1:25 PM
@βρεττς
All Christian that believe, believe that
1:25 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Ian is definitely Protestant.
1:25 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are categories of Christian.
1:26 PM
@βρεττς
There’s really only for that I’m aware of that claim Christian yet aren’t Trinitarian. Mormons, Jehovah witnesses Unitarians in oneness Pentecostal.
1:26 PM
@βρεττς
They can claim Christianity all they want
1:28 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Are Unitarians Christian, Brett?
1:28 PM
@anselman3156
Yes Detachment is a necessary part of spiritual life
1:28 PM
@βρεττς
No. The New Thought movement also tries to think they’re Christian
1:31 PM
@βρεττς
Claire, did you watch that video I sent you? They went over your Thomas Jefferson thesis. And how inaccurate it was. The first time Thomas Jefferson bought a Quran was after the Muslims were killing .
From 45:35
1:31 PM
@βρεττς
Americans. He wanted to know why they believe what they believe
1:31 PM
@βρεττς
It wasn’t to formulate the declaration of independence
1:32 PM
@anselman3156
Post service conversation is hit or mis. Usually inadequate for real fellowship
1:34 PM
@OOOTLAM
Adam Green was also Church of Christ.
1:34 PM
@OOOTLAM
Jefferson ordered his Koran in 1765 when he was still a 21 year old law student.
1:35 PM
@βρεττς
Yes, Muslims were killing American Christians
1:35 PM
@OOOTLAM
The First Amendment was passed in 1791.
1:36 PM
@βρεττς
#1
In their letters, they discuss that they quoted the Bible more than any other text
1:36 PM
@OOOTLAM
The Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom was drafted in 1777.
1:36 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Apparently, you’re not willing to engage what I’m saying to be facts and use your logic
1:37 PM
@OOOTLAM
Jefferson ordered and read the Koran between 1765 and 1777.
1:37 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Read their letters, Claire
1:37 PM
@OOOTLAM
What have I said that is illogical, Brett? The First Amendment is supported by 2:256 of the Koran.
1:37 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Him and John Madison
1:38 PM
@anselman3156
I need time alone with God to be able to cope with the imperfections on the human side of the church. But the sacraments and corporate worship are vital
1:38 PM
@βρεττς
#1
The Quran supports the amendment not the other way around
1:38 PM
@OOOTLAM
Are you saying Jefferson did not read the Koran until after the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom and the First Amendment was drafted?
1:38 PM
@βρεττς
#1
No
1:40 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Ecclesiastes 3:13 which states “Every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labor, it is the gift of God
1:40 PM
@βρεττς
#1
The document’s framers were deeply influenced by Christian thought: of the 56 signers, 27 held seminary degrees, indicating strong Christian influence
1:42 PM
@βρεττς
#1
the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God was biblical before it had anything spoken in a Quran
1:42 PM
@anselman3156
We should not readily blame the church corporately for individual human faults
1:43 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Man sins. That’s the point Anselman
1:43 PM
@anselman3156
however, I do think bad theology can result in bad behaviour
1:44 PM
@βρεττς
#1
You make promises that a sinner can’t reach you leave them hopeless and deny what Christ did for them in reconciliation
1:44 PM
@anselman3156
The church is a mix of wheat and chaff on the human level, good and bad fish. We have to look beyond to Jesus
1:45 PM
@OOOTLAM
@anselman3156 Theology is basically the premises we rely on to make our arguments eg whether Jesus is God.
1:45 PM
@βρεττς
#1
hermeneutical disagreement
1:46 PM
@anselman3156
A misunderstanding of God's character can result in bad treatment of others
1:47 PM
@βρεττς
#1
A misunderstanding of man’s character can do that also
1:47 PM
@anselman3156
God is Love, and love to all. No one is excluded from God's love
1:48 PM
@anselman3156
God cares for every one
1:48 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Agree, agreed but he doesn’t have one kind of love
1:49 PM
@OOOTLAM
Christian identity is directly linked to the perception that the Trinity is idolatry or indifference to whether it is or not.
1:49 PM
@OOOTLAM
God is absolutely logical.
1:49 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Jacob I have loved Esau. I have hated. In the Greek hated is translated as love differently.
1:49 PM
@anselman3156
The Trinity is Love
1:50 PM
@OOOTLAM
The Meaning Crisis = The Crisis of Matriarchy
1:50 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Claire, you’re as clueless as it comes regarding Christianity
1:50 PM
@OOOTLAM
I am the most knowledgeable theologian in the world.
1:50 PM
@OOOTLAM
@anselman3156 You make me laugh.
1:51 PM
@OOOTLAM
@anselman3156 God has specifically and explicitly forbidden idolatry in His Commandments.
1:51 PM
@βρεττς
#1
And we see Jesus as God, which doesn’t make it idolatry. Get it through your head, Claire.
1:52 PM
@OOOTLAM
Very long Wikipedia entry for Church of Christ which I must read!
1:53 PM
@anselman3156
"sacramental" is a key word. Christ nourishes through the sacrament
1:53 PM
@βρεττς
#1
And Jews and Muslims don’t. And this is a line that we will never back down from. This is why your system will never work.
1:53 PM
@βρεττς
#1
We just disagree on sacraments and it’s claims of what it achieves.
1:53 PM
@OOOTLAM
The First Amendment being supported by 2:256 of the Koran makes the proposition nation's propositions fundamentally Islamic.
1:54 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Bartman is a lunatic
1:54 PM
@anselman3156
#2
Ehrman has been refuted
1:54 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Cart before the horse, Claire
1:54 PM
@anselman3156
#2
Ehrman is an apostate driven by his bias
1:54 PM
@βρεττς
#1
He respected, but he’s been refuted Marc
1:55 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Bart wants what he wants. That’s the bottom line.
1:55 PM
@anselman3156
#2
This is where Mark lives up to his "pseudo catholic" title, emphasis on pseudo. j
1:55 PM
@OOOTLAM
Trinitarianism is totemic of the most powerful denominations of Christianity ie political Christianity that used to support absolute monarchy eg Catholicism, Anglicanism and Orthodox Christianity.
1:58 PM
@OOOTLAM
Orthodox Christianity has attracted a whole bunch of White Nationalists who were persuaded by E Michael Jones telling them that race cannot be their religion.
1:58 PM
@anselman3156
#2
Mark's bad theology. Collectivity as alternative to Christ and sacraments
2:00 PM
@OOOTLAM
The problem with White Nationalists thinking Orthodox Christianity is a camouflage for White Nationalism is that they have made themselves an easier target for the FBI!
2:00 PM
@βρεττς
#1
Get off the Internet, Claire and you might learn something
2:01 PM
@βρεττς
#1
You don’t have to like it, but the Bible says it
2:01 PM
@OOOTLAM
Rabbi Tovia Singer has worked out why Orthodox Christianity is so attractive to White Nationalists - because it has never formally recognised Israel.
2:01 PM
@OOOTLAM
What would you like me to learn, Brett?
2:01 PM
@βρεττς
#1
That that’s not what orthodoxy is
2:02 PM
@MarcInTbilisi
I've already been saved, Christ popped into my head a few years ago so everything is good.
2:02 PM
@anselman3156
#2
The Christian goes to heaven at death to be with Christ. Christ's return is to put a final end to wickedness on earth and to purge and transform the earth with fire, and resurrect us
2:02 PM
@OOOTLAM
@MarcInTbilisi We don't know if we have been saved until we wake up in the afterlife and discover we are in heaven.
2:03 PM
@MarcInTbilisi
Claire, try & understand humour.
2:03 PM
@OOOTLAM
@MarcInTbilisi I will have to keep making my theological points.
2:05 PM
@OOOTLAM
All the Abrahamic religions expect the End Times and therefore the Messiah. It's silly to argue about something that has not even happened. We can argue about whether the Trinity is idolatry though!
2:06 PM
@anselman3156
#2
It is a false messianism that places all its hope in human collective action improving conditions on a dying earth
2:06 PM
@OOOTLAM
If we believe in God who forbade idolatry and blasphemy, we would want to be on His good side to get to the better place in the afterlife and obey His prohibitions.
2:06 PM
@βρεττς
#1
This is why everyone should stay away from Ian McGilchrist. He confuses the issues.
2:07 PM
@βρεττς
#1
He claims pan psychic
2:08 PM
@WhiteStoneName
Opportunity costs...
2:08 PM
@OOOTLAM
Just take idolatry seriously if you believe in the afterlife. If you don't, consider the options of becoming a rabbinically-guided Noahide or Muslim. It's really that simple.
2:09 PM
@OOOTLAM
If you are agnostic or atheist, you might want to consider the spiritual benefits of being a Secular Koranist.
2:09 PM
@OOOTLAM
Any chopping down of cherry trees?
2:10 PM
@βρεττς
#1
That represents nobody here, Claire
2:10 PM
@OOOTLAM
We agree on that fraud McGilchrist - hurray!
2:11 PM
@OOOTLAM
I enjoy superb mental health. Our 20s are made for depression, so I understand, Ian. The pain is actually therapeutic.
2:12 PM
@OOOTLAM
Ian should get himself off the psychotropic drugs. I think they are worse than recreational drugs.
2:13 PM
@OOOTLAM
Feel the psychic pain to the max and then get the F over it.
2:14 PM
@insight.incorporated
He did chop the cherry tree Claire
2:15 PM
@insight.incorporated
Also not on drugs. Nicotine and caffeine excluded
2:15 PM
@OOOTLAM
Aren't opioids drugs?
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