10:00 Secular Koranism and the Claire/Jon breakup announced.
24:00 JON VANCE joins.
26:00 Irritatingly, Doooovid makes the category error of assuming Secular Koranism is a belief system after the many many many times I have taken care to say that it is a legal system designed to accommodate atheists to polytheists guaranteeing freedom of belief with quran.com/2/256 By that I mean that it would be the equivalent of giving citizens of any Secular Koranist state the rights that come with the First Amendment.
The obvious question that should have been asked was not asked when Jon said I was guilty of hypocrisy.
How am I a hypocrite?
Secular Koranism is not interested in your beliefs and does not care what you believe as long as you obey the law.
28:00 I point out that I am not in this alleged "moral quandary"Jon claims I am in.
29:00 I explain the punishment for unmarried parents described in quran.com/24/2 The punishment would only kick in after illegitimate offspring is born.
Lewd acts between men would be punished according to quran.com/4/16 Under Secular Koranism that punishment would only kick in if one is caught cottaging. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottaging
Lewd acts between women would be punished according to quran.com/4/15 Under Secular Koranism lesbian sex acts would only be punished if more than three witnesses witnessed the lewd act, so technically a lesbian sex show would be within the law if no more than three reliable witnesses can be found to testify that they have witnessed this lewd lesbian act.
http://thebattlefieldoflove.blogspot.com/2008/06/male-priests-civil-partnership-blessed.html
Within these parameters LGBTs can still shag and shack up with each other but no longer marry or civilly partner each other. There is sufficient sexual freedom under Secular Koranism for LGBT people to be sexually active under these laws, which I would have thought is the perfect compromise. Jon talks about my "purity spiralling".
29:00 The Purity Spiral
Jon uses the word incorrectly, in my view. One can only purity spiral if one is in an echo chamber and, unlike Church of Entropy, I have no echo chamber or hugbox. If I did have a hugbox, it would b be one with spikes inside. Purity spiralling happens when a group of people are already agreed on a belief eg Jews are responsible for all the ills of the West, non-whites are inferior to whites etc. When this happens, those in that group vie with each other for status by articulating ever more extreme positions and denounce those who refuse to take these extreme positions as race traitors, Jew-lovers, Jewish, n*gger lovers suffering from insufficient commitment to the cause etc.
My solution to the ills of the West is to replace Christianity and representative democracy with a one party theocracy. Therefore, logically and necessarily, I would have to make clear that Christianity is kaput because:
1) it is cursed by God because of its Supreme Blasphemy and Ultimate Idolatry requiring Christians to worship an executed revolutionary as the co-equal of the supreme and eternal Abrahamic God, which is what the Doctrine of the Trinity requires
2) of its corrupt priesthood who are more interested in deriving an income and status from the church than maintaining any Christian morality or even discussing what it is
3) it has been superseded by Islam which is the most advanced version of monotheism
4) the sin of idolatry is its own punishment, for idolatry leads eventually to self-worship and self-destructive narcissism.
Strategy
My strategy is to keep pointing out at every opportunity that Christianity is kaput by asking people what religion is for to engage in discussion.
Jon could easily do this, but the leader of the Canadian Nationalist Party identifies as Christian and it is their hope to recruit people who identify as Christian.
I have pointed out that hoping a micro-party would make any difference at all in one's lifetime is an exercise in futility and have pointed out to him that it took UKIP - founded in 2003 - 10 years to get the EU referendum they sought when David Cameron promised them a referendum in 2013.
To self-censor in the hope of garnering sufficient electoral support in the next election would be profoundly self-limiting.
If extra-parliamentary methods are being contemplated, then all peaceful avenues must be thoroughly explored. The most powerful way to do this is to ask these questions:
- What is religion for?
- How do we know when our religion has failed?
- What is patriarchy?
- What is matriarchy?
- At what point does your patriarchy become a matriarchy?
- Are all advanced civilisations patriarchies?
- Are all primitive, declining, extinct and soon to be extinct societies matriarchies?
- Is patriarchy a society that prioritises the preferences of married fathers who want to properly parent their legitimate offspring?
- Is matriarchy a morally degenerate society that prioritises the preferences of unmarried mothers indifferent to the parenting of their casually conceived illegitimate offspring?
- Would the perfect patriarchy consist of 100% married parents?
- Would the perfect matriarchy consist of 100% unmarried parents?
- Are you a matriarchy if most parents in your society are unmarried parents?
- Is the government afraid of alienating the vote of unmarried parents when the illegitimacy rate is 40% in the US, 50% in Canada and over 50% in the UK?
- Are all men in a matriarchy lower in status than the unmarried mother?
- Is POTUS lower in status to the unmarried mother since he has not so far criticised them and their parenting?
- Should no fault divorce be abolished?
- Would only a one party theocracy governed by the principles of Secular Koranism fix all that needs to be fixed and get things through?
- Is there a better and bigger idea than Secular Koranism?
- Is Islam more Noahide-observant than Christianity?
- Is Secular Koranism - based on the Holy Book of Islam - more Noahide than Christianity?
- Would Muslims donate money for a large cash prize for an essay-writing competition open only to rabbis on why they think Islam and Secular Koranism are more Noahide-observant than Christianity?
- Would Muslims donate money for a large cash prize for an essay-writing competition open only to rabbis on whether Jews were chosen by God to promote the Noahide laws?
- Would Muslims donate money for a large cash prize for an essay-writing competition open to rabbis only on whether the quickest way for Israeli Jews to peacefully acquire the territory of Greater Israel is to operate their government under a Koran-based theocracy eg Secular Koranism?
- Would Muslims donate money for a large cash prize for an essay-writing competition open to rabbis only on whether any verse in the Koran falls foul of the Noahide laws?
However because he fears to offend his leader, Jon refuses to ask these questions and prefers his displacement therapy of learning Arabic.
If he is doing more than just learning Arabic and is, for example, reading Siege for ideas, then the question I would put to him is this:
Before you contemplate extra-parliamentary methods of pursuing your politics, shouldn't you make sure that you have explored all peaceful avenues first?
30:00 Jon accuses me of being so naive as to think that some magic rabbi is going to do the right thing and save Western civilisation. Obviously not, because I am planing to bribe them!
31:00 Jon is afraid to alienate his leader and his supporters who identify as Christian. I doubt that they really think or even know they are supposed to think that an executed revolutionary is the co-equal of the supreme and eternal Abrahamic God.
Jon's leader was the man who wore a cowboy hat and looked as if he was about to draw a gun when he made this video.
https://www.nationalist.ca/2019/06/04/beware-the-parasitic-tribe/
32:00 I explain my strategy in one sentence. Jon accuses me of hypocrisy and "pandering to LGBT".
34:00 I welcome the opportunity of getting people to examine what the Koran says on extramarital sex which I really think is fair enough. I want it known that the Koran nowhere advocates throwing sodomites off tall buildings which comes from the Talmud anyway.
https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/the-pursuit-of-rabbi-dweck-1.440146
When the Torah says “an eye for an eye”, the Talmud explains this is not taken literally but means monetary compensation must be paid for an injury. When the Torah specifies the death penalty of stoning, the Talmud explains it meant the offender was hurled down from a high place – rather than pelted with stones.
35:00 Jon accuses me of "larping as a Muslim". I always declare my agnosticism.
For some strange reason, apropos of nothing, Jon says "Claire hasn't read the Torah but wants to fuse Judaism with Islam". I cannot even think what I might have said that gave him this idea.
37:00 Jon: "It seems Claire scares away all the Muslims with my interpretation of the Korans." I can't help it if Muslims are cowards too.
38:00 Jon: "Christians have a lot more in common with Muslims than I guess you could say the Judaic part"
Typically, Doooovid doesn't ask him what he means by this. Does Jon just mean he dislikes these Christians less than he dislikes Jews?
40:00 I defend myself.
42:00 Idolatry
43:00 Doooovid finally answers my question on his Multiple Truth Hypothesis:
Is it possible for God to have first revealed the Torah to Jews and then subsequently the Koran to Muslims?
Doooovid says yes.
44:00 Again, Doooovid misunderstands the nature of Secular Koranism and seems to think it is my little cult! Secular Koranism is a legal system, not a belief system. Doooovid keeps thinking it is a belief system.
45:00 Muslim attitudes to debate.
46:00 Jon wants to be accepted by his new community and has to put his political activism on the backburner. I accept that most Muslims would be too intellectually inadequate to discuss Secular Koranism anyway. The ones capable of discussing it would be too afraid of losing status and causing controversy to be even seen to be talking to me.
47:00 I explain my strategy again and this includes asking people what religion for to engage wit them. Doooovid declines to engage.
48:00 Vincent Bruno
49:00 Rabbi-only essay writing competition with prizes donated by Muslims.
https://thevoiceofreason-ann.blogspot.com/2020/02/how-my-rabbi-only-essay-writing.html
50:00 https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-noahide-laws/
The prohibition against idolatry refers specifically to idolatrous worship, and not to beliefs. In later generations, Jews had to determine whether the prevailing religious cultures in which they lived were idolatrous. Since Islam is strictly monotheistic, Muslims have always been considered Noahides. Since the later Middle Ages, Jews have acknowledged that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity was not the same as idolatry, and they were also recognized as Noahides.
51:00 Doooovid agrees with the probable efficacy of incentivising rabbis to write essays with large cash prizes.
I move on to my new pet topic of Greater Israel which I had never discussed with him before, but he nervously declines to "relitigate" with me what he has never discussed with me before.
1:01:56
Gischala John
@The HardKhaw Prawn i'll take vance's place if the spot is open
1:02:23
The HardKhaw Prawn
@Gischala John Not sure what you mean.
1:02:39
Gischala John
Your Down a memeber of SK
1:03:17
The HardKhaw Prawn
@Gischala John Oh wow. What a surprise. I wasn't expecting that!
1:06:13
The HardKhaw Prawn
@Gischala John Thanks, John.
Why Jon Vance thinks I am a "Jewish supremacist"
https://ask.fm/oneparty4all/threads/160956360833
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