THE VOICE OF REASON
Solon, (born c. 630 BCE—died c. 560 BCE), Athenian statesman, known as one of the Seven Wise Men of Greece (the others were Chilon of Sparta, Thales of Miletus, Bias of Priene, Cleobulus of Lindos, Pittacus of Mytilene, and Periander of Corinth). Solon ended exclusive aristocratic control of the government, substituted a system of control by the wealthy, and introduced a new and more humane law code. He was also a noted poet.
It appears to me that churches are but social clubs.
12:15 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Are social clubs soteriological?
12:15 PM
@ethan.caughey
Appearances can be deceiving.
12:16 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
Christianity mutated after its Atlantic crossing.
12:16 PM
@ethan.caughey
#3
Everything mutates; it's how evolution happens.
12:17 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey Every American should know that the Founding Fathers separated the church from their state. Social clubs do not maintain morality but go along to get along.
12:17 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey You don't seem to think that God made eternal and universal laws for humanity.
12:17 PM
@ethan.caughey
#3
I don't want church and state intertwined. My church is not a social club.
12:18 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey How is it not a social club? Does it maintain morality?
12:18 PM
@ethan.caughey
#3
Correct. Our weekly email has a very clear link that you can click on and report abuse.
12:19 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey What kind of abuse?
12:20 PM
@ethan.caughey
#3
I haven't clicked the link, so I don't know. But immoral behavior generally creates abuse, so we have a clear method for discipline.
12:21 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey What is immoral behaviour?
12:21 PM
@ethan.caughey
#3
And now you're playing dumb and trying to set up a trap with leading questions. I'm done playing with you. You know full well what immoral behavior is.
12:22 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey I don't know what your church considers to be immoral behaviour and neither do you, it seems.
12:22 PM
@chrishoward8473
We don't seem to be in a debate mood today
12:23 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey You think defining terms is "playing"?
12:23 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@chrishoward8473 I was wondering if Olson received my answer to his Les Miserables question.
12:25 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@chrishoward8473 Has Olson heard of the Half-Way Covenant?
12:26 PM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
@ethan.caughey For your information, defining and agreeing terms is crucial to having a constructive discussion about anything.
12:28 PM
@YawnGod
Is Ethan here to fix Ms. Khaw? 🤔
12:33 PM
@YawnGod
#2
Secret societies are protestant phenomena. 🤔
12:35 PM
@YawnGod
#2
"Why are you gay? ...you are gay."
12:36 PM
@YawnGod
#2
Listen...Jesus was black.
12:37 PM
@YawnGod
#2
Because sinning is FUN, Ms. Khaw.
12:43 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
We all don’t have to be clones of one another
12:43 PM
@YawnGod
#2
Trees bifurcate 🤔
12:45 PM
@scott9309
With little fishes on the doors
12:46 PM
@YawnGod
#2
You know that the United States is the country where most citizens distrust other fellow citizens? Fun times.
12:46 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
I hear in places more hostile, they memorize the Bible too
12:47 PM
@scott9309
#1
I have heard stories about groups coming together over fragments of scripture
12:48 PM
@ethan.caughey
Yeah, like just a few pages of the Gospel of Matthew
12:48 PM
@scott9309
#1
Be careful to not be a stumbling block of your brother
12:49 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
But one wouldn’t want to judge the health of a body based on one part
12:50 PM
@YawnGod
#3
Everyone is looking for salvation, let's keep it real. They really, really wanna go to heaven.
12:50 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
So yeah, not just the pastor
12:50 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Lol
12:51 PM
@YawnGod
#3
Good works are just works which are not bad. If you think about it, all you have to do is NOT do bad works 🤔
12:51 PM
@ethan.caughey
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad
12:51 PM
@YawnGod
#3
I like neutral, lukewarm works.
12:52 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
God breathed into humanity, ya? I always figured that means participating in the body of Christ means going with that flow
12:52 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
So not doing nothing ain’t doing that
12:54 PM
@YawnGod
#3
Better to be addicted to crypto investments than the burning bush 🔥
12:55 PM
@scott9309
#1
Omg
12:55 PM
@Jzepp
It all comes back to root beer.
12:57 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Lol
12:57 PM
@YawnGod
#3
The Gospels of Jesus Christ are an inspirational, aspirational story. Heh. "spiration" 🌬
12:57 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Power through Olson!
12:57 PM
@YawnGod
#3
I am pro-bullying 🐄
12:58 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Olson! You can do it!
12:58 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Keep going! Olson!
12:58 PM
@YawnGod
#3
Olson has that "daddy will stay calm" energy. I like it 🌡
12:59 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
lol,@yawngod
1:00 PM
@scott9309
#1
Wow
1:01 PM
@YawnGod
#3
We are plebs and plebs can't really do stuff on the global stage 🗺
1:02 PM
@scott9309
#1
It is to let Jesus embody the people
1:02 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
And getting right is a great way to help make things right
1:02 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Splinter in neighbor eye vs plank in mine stuff
1:03 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Plebs got a nearby zone of influence and should maybe focus there
1:03 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Clean room, etc
1:04 PM
@YawnGod
#3
You can't not participate in society, because even if you do nothing you are still loitering on the street, and loitering is a thing.
1:05 PM
@scott9309
#1
Well said Ethan
1:07 PM
@scott9309
#1
The same spirit that is in the law
1:08 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Jesus spoke to politicians if they came to him. But he didn’t go protest Caesar, did he?
1:12 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
“We” is a little fuzzy there too
1:13 PM
@chrishoward8473
"We" is very fuzzy.
1:14 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Other things one can do is contact the politicians between votes
1:15 PM
@YawnGod
#3
Guys...democracy is a psy-op.
1:15 PM
@BrianOfCollegeStation
Doesn’t do a lot (especially if you are a tiny fraction of constituency). But on a local level it does a little
1:16 PM
@YawnGod
#3
Non-violent protest means that you can boycott voting because "Free will" or something.
1:18 PM
@YawnGod
#3
Ms. Khaw talks like journalists who get killed for exposing Deep State secrets is not a thing. I mean...🤔
1:19 PM
@YawnGod
#3
To fix democracy, you need a personal army, and that makes you...a dictator. Ironic, a dictator is required to fix democracy. Heh. Fun circle of life this is 🐹🛞
************************
7:00 Chris Howard refers to my comment:
I
don’t think Americans understand that the American Republic was one of the reasons why belief in Christianity in Europe declined to the extent that Christendom ended in 1918.
After the success of the American Revolution, the French and Russian Revolutions followed. These revolutions were rejections of monarchy and the religion that supported their divine right to rule.
Liberalism was imposed on Germany after the German Emperor abdicated in 1918 and the Weimar Republic replaced the German monarchy. This was rejected by Nazism.
In Russia, Orthodox Christianity was replaced by Communism.
Italy became a republic in 1946. If Italy itself was no longer Catholic because the king of Italy was forced to abdicate, Catholicism has utterly failed Catholic monarchs the remnants of whom are the Belgian and Spanish monarchies. It is the British monarchy that commands the most territory ie its dominions in Australia, Canada and New Zealand but the British and the rest of the West apart from Russia are but US vassal states. How do Americans feel about Paula White-Cain being in effect the Church of America representing American Christianity?
Let’s face it, American Christianity is a completely different kettle of fish to European Christianity.
The idea of non-denominational Christianity would be utterly heretical to the absolute monarchs of Christendom and wouldn’t be tolerated for a moment.
Denominational Christianity was at least a way for competing Christians to say “My kind of Christianity is more powerful than your kind of Christianity because the empire of my monarch is vaster than yours.”
Non-denominational Christianity will have anyone as long as they pay. This is the Christianity of your President who has no moral principles that he would like to declare other than morality is what his mind thinks is moral. Is Paula White-Cain his adviser and conscience or just his voodoo priestess?
8:00 Individual v Corporate
37:00 ETHAN joins.
44:00 30 people in Chris's social club and coffee moring after the service.
46:00 The social club is Conservative Presbyterian.
48:00 Ethan's Anglican parish full of former Baptists because it was formerly Baptist, now non-denominational.
49:00 Schism over liturgy
50:00 Preaching and participatory music
52:00 Communion
54:00 Olson's pronoun problem
56:00 Congregation of 50-70
Young church which lost its denominational status
57:00 Anglican Lite with a blend of Orthodox
58:00 Liturgy
59:00 Wife non-denominational
1:00:00 No continuity even of Christian tradition even within one Christian lifetime.
1:01:00 Corrupted liturgy and doctrinal heresy
1:02:00 CLAIRE KHAW joins.
1:03:00 E Michael Jones mentioning the Half-Way Covenant
1:05:00 Non-Conformism is Presbyterianism where the congregation elect their elders.
1:06:00 Christianity in Europe is different to Christianity in America.
1:07:00 Judges and Kings
Individual and collective responsibility
1:08:00 Localism
1:09:00 "Flourishing Jesus followers"
His Anglican Church
1:10:00 GAFCON
1:11:00 Tolerating sodomy would tend to decrease the birth rate of your group.
1:12:00 Christian imperialism
1:13:00 Sodom and Gomorrah
1:16:00 Schism
1:17:00 Ethan says the splinter producing the remnant could be a good thing.
1:18:00 I should have said at this point "God is one!"
Sedevacantism
1:19:00 The British Monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.
Heresy in Catholicism
1:20:00 Christian Nationalism
1:21:00 The marginalisation of Christians is welcomed by Chris.
1:22:00 The Religion of Mum and Dad
1:23:00 The Orgiastic Pastor
1:26:00 OLSON rambles.
1:27:00 The legal standard
1:30:00 "The law is a floating average."
1:31:00 Ideals and standards
1:32:00 Thinking straight is better than hypocritically pretending you care about loving others. The lower standard is the law. People with low standards will want to know what is the least they must do or the most they can get away with to get to heaven if they believe in that sort of thing. If they don't believe in God or the afterlife, they can at least refrain from breaking the law. If the law is an ass, they could be asking themselves why it is an ass, instead of endlessly filibustering to prevent a discussion about connecting law with morality.
1:33:00 If only we really loved our neighbours and more shit like that.
1:35:00 The rules
1:37:00 Representative democracy
1:38:00 Gay marriage
1:39:00 It's not a felony to steal less than $950 worth of goods.
1:40:00 Hashem
1:41:00 Gibberish about Adam and Eve
1:43:00 Ethan has never voted.
1:44:00 What laws are Christian?
1:45:00 I am not a monarchist!
1:46:0 You are more likely to get a meritocracy in a republic.
1:47:00 Mormons
1:48:00 America bombed Iran, with love!
George Washington warned against political parties.
1:50:00 Political parties have no principles.
1:51:00 Representative democracy is a Punch & Judy Show.
1:52:00 We all have political power even without the vote.
1:54:00 Moral and political leadership chosen through hierarchy based on a functional moral order
Trump got elected because he promised to end neocon wars.
11:38 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
I supported Trump because he said he would end the endless wars, as did many MAGA Americans like Marjorie Taylor Greene.
11:38 AM
@Eolson-helper
#2
Thats called gentle parenting and it is a big way of raising kids.
11:38 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
Colonisation is the corollary of imperialism.
11:39 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
I have never said imperialism was inherently evil.
11:40 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
By supporting Trump, I said Americans should vote for him, not that I voted for him!
11:40 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
Not sure what you mean by this Prime Directive thing.
11:42 AM
@Eolson-helper
#2
And it’s terrible. The parents helicopter and then get angry when you try to discipline children. “They felt like you weren’t hearing them.”
11:42 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
If you have read any Asimov, you will know that he talks about Galactic Empires in his Foundation series.
11:43 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
The Koran says Allah is Lord of the Worlds which suggests sharia has ambitions beyond this solar system!
11:44 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#3
Was nice hearing you read the Bible at Bible studies yesterday Claire
11:44 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
Hari Seldon
11:44 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#1
And his Psychohistory
11:45 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
@teestrypzSOG Thank you for saying so. I enjoyed myself too reading about my fave topic: monarchy and bad bad bad kings!
11:46 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
No shortage of bad kings in the book of kings 1 & 2
11:48 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Judaism is a religion of imperialism, to be fair. Ann Coulter grew up in a town called New Canaan in Connecticut which means Americans must have thought of themselves as the New Jews.
11:48 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
Is the Martin Shaw book worth me spending an audible credit on?
11:50 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
Real anti-judgementalism hasn’t been tried
11:50 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Blame non-judgmentalism on Jesus.
11:50 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
I do identify as a postmodernist so I’m a lil biased
11:51 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
Supersessionism is inevitable. Each later Abrahamic religion claims to be better than the previous one.
11:51 AM
@OfficialSecularKoranism
#2
@teestrypzSOG What do you mean by postmodernism?
11:52 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
PVK made the book sound like it requires a ritual to be able to get into it, which put me off the purchase
11:52 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
Your review isn’t filling me with excitement either, “it’s a good book”
11:54 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
How convenient
11:54 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
It didn’t even work with Muslims
11:54 AM
@teestrypzSOG
#1
Ahmadiya Muslims exist 😂
12:02 PM
@Eolson-helper
#3
A lot
12:02 PM
@Eolson-helper
#3
Of those were the mennonites
12:03 PM
@Eolson-helper
#3
Claire do you support Sharia law in the UK?
12:10 PM
@Eolson-helper
#3
Obedience to the law is not based on the severity of the punishment but the frequency of being caught and punished.
**********************
38:00 CLAIRE KHAW joins to say Muslims believe the Koran is the final revelation and Muhammad is the final prophet.
39:00 Jews and Muslim s agree there are eternal and universal laws.
40:00 Rules are made to be broken.
41:00 Distinguishing between rule keepers and rule breakers
42:00 36 capital offences of Judaism
43:00 Felony > misdemeanour
44:00 Penal transportation
45:00 Greenland and Iceland
Colorado and Nebraska were not desirable farm.
46:00 Volga Germans
47:00 Ukraine
49:00 Assimilation and going native
50:00 Islamification
Amish
52:00 Minnesota
53:00 Kristi Noem replaced as Homeland Security Chief.
54:000 Consultation/shura
55:00 Opinion pollsters
56:00 Gay marriage was a fait accompli given to Americans, not voted on.
57:00 Government departments, lobbyists and representatives of important groups eg married parents, bachelors and spinsters
1:00:00 No racial groups
1:01:00 Blindly following
1:02:00 Religious groups
Church of England
1:03:00 Does imperialism benefit the average voter?
14:00 In a properly ordered patriarchy, there would be only two kinds of women supplying sex to heterosexual men: wives and prostitutes. Currently, the biggest supplier of sex are never married mothers/fornicatresses.
15:00 Fornicatresses are queering the market for sex.
T.E. Lawrence (“Lawrence of Arabia”) felt deeply disillusioned by the 1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement, a secret pact between Britain and France that betrayed promises of Arab independence he had made to his allies. The agreement partitioned Ottoman-controlled Middle East into French- and British-spheres, contradicting Arab hopes for a unified state, forcing Lawrence to fight for their cause at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference.
Key Details on Lawrence and the Sykes-Picot Agreement:
The Conflict: While leading the Arab Revolt (1916–1918), Lawrence promised Faisal I and Arab leaders that they would gain independence after the war. Simultaneously, British diplomat Mark Sykes and French diplomat François Georges-Picot signed a secret agreement to divide the region, with France taking Syria/Lebanon and Britain taking Iraq/Jordan/Palestine.
Discovery and Reaction: Lawrence likely learned details of the agreement between May and October 1916, or upon its public release by the Bolsheviks in 1917, which he found "disgusting". He realized his work was being used to support colonial expansion rather than Arab sovereignty.
Post-War Actions: Despite the betrayal, Lawrence pushed for the fulfillment of Arab promises at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, advocating for Prince Faisal.
Long-term Impact: The agreement, which drew arbitrary borders across the Middle East, is often cited as a root cause of instability and conflict in the region for the past century.
24:00 An absolute monarch is above the law.
26:00 Sykes-Picot Agreement 1916
BRAVE AI
Sykes–Picot Agreement was a secret 1916 treaty between the United Kingdom and France, with assent from Russia and Italy, to define their spheres of influence and control in the event of the Ottoman Empire’s defeat in World War I. The agreement laid the groundwork for the post-war partition of the Middle East, dividing Ottoman territories into British and French zones of control, while also addressing Russian and Italian interests. It was negotiated by British diplomat Mark Sykes and French diplomat François Georges-Picot, with formal ratification occurring on 9–16 May 1916. The agreement directly influenced the creation of modern states in the region and is widely viewed as a foundational moment in the geopolitical shaping of the Middle East.
Sykes–Picot Agreement – Quick facts:
Signed: 3 January 1916 (initialled), formally ratified 9–16 May 1916
Parties: United Kingdom, France, Russia (initially), Italy (later)
Key negotiators: Mark Sykes (UK), François Georges-Picot (France)
Territorial division:
British control: Southern Israel, Palestine, Jordan, southern Iraq, and access to Mediterranean ports (Haifa, Acre)
French control: Southeastern Turkey, Kurdistan Region, Syria, and Lebanon
International administration: Palestine (to be decided post-consultation)
Russian interests: Western Armenia, Constantinople, and the Turkish Straits (under the Constantinople Agreement and Sazonov–Paléologue Agreement)
The agreement was initially kept secret from the Arab populations it affected, despite prior British promises of Arab independence. It was later exposed by the Russian Bolshevik government in November 1917, contributing to widespread Arab distrust. Though not directly implemented in full, the Sykes–Picot framework heavily influenced the 1920 San Remo Conference and the subsequent League of Nations mandates, shaping the modern borders of the Middle East.
27:00 British schoolchildren had to learn the kings and queens of England when they took monarchy seriously.
3:00 Jews, Christians and Muslims had terrible kings.
4:00 Never mind the narratives. People just need to concentrate on whether the Trinity is idolatry and what Christians are going to do about it if they do decide that the Trinity is idolatry which is a mortal sin forbidden by the Abrahamic God in His Commandments.
6:00 The New Testament has no unity of authorship and was not written by Jesus, let alone God. In fact, the Trinity - which is totemic of Christianity - is not even mentioned in it.
7:00 You talk about "the humility of God" because you assume that He is Jesus. Jews and Muslims think worshiping God as Jesus is idolatry.
10:00 You obviously still don't get it that Job's faith in God was being tested and that he passed the test because he resisted his wife's exhortation to curse God and die. His reward was to be restored and get his own book in the Old Testament.
12:00 Pharaoh and the Egyptians were idolaters. Americans are mostly pagans, guilty of idolatry if they are Trinitarians.
14:00 You don't know that God created evil or why?
26:00 Justice is what is felt by the majority of the group to be fair enough.
43:00 If we take responsibility and blame ourselves, we forgive ourselves fairly quickly.
46:00 Anthropomorphism is idolatry.
49:00 Arguing about the different narratives is a waste of time and energy when you could be showing some interest in God's will by taking an interest in His laws.
55:00 The West was also built on Catholicism.
56:00 We are but lower animals without moral reasoning.