I think it is time for Christians to come to terms with how much they must be in the doghouse if God exists.
THE VOICE OF REASON Solon, (born c. 630 BCE—died c. 560 BCE), Athenian statesman, known as one of the Seven Wise Men of Greece (the others were Chilon of Sparta, Thales of Miletus, Bias of Priene, Cleobulus of Lindos, Pittacus of Mytilene, and Periander of Corinth). Solon ended exclusive aristocratic control of the government, substituted a system of control by the wealthy, and introduced a new and more humane law code. He was also a noted poet.
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19 comments:
It being a democracy and not like Pakistan or Iran, you may think what you wish. I doubt many Christians will have time for this skewered/warped dogma you constantly push where they are in the doghouse (according to you), but those who use homicide belts or misappropriate transport, both for murderous purposes with the promise of 72 virgins (a totally unprovable fairy tale excuse) are not in the doghouse. Extremely hypocritical.
There are not many Christians even in Europe which was where Christianity became Christendom.
You may even remember Malcolm Muggeridge writing a book called called The End of Christendom published in 1986.
The beginning of the end of Christendom was the American Republic.
If you were capable of thinking hypothetically, you would have been able to ask yourself if Muslim terrorism was God's way of punishing Christians.
Please name the rabbis that have "acknowledged" that Muslim terrorism is divine punishment for disobedient Jews. And by the way, your use of the word "acknowledged" rather than "claimed" or "asserted" reflects that you agree with this stupidity. That said, thanks for inventing a Jew-hating trope that I'd never heard before. But please, identify these so-called rabbis.
Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi.
If God exists and if Judaism is true, how is Rabbi Mizrachi wrong?
You seem to be saying that reincarnation is obviously wrong because it is based on being punished for behaviour in previous lives. How is Rabbi Mizrachi wrong for supposing that reincarnation is indeed based on this concept?
Are you really saying that Jewish identity is not a matter of controversy amongst Jews?
How is Rabbi Mizrachi obviously wrong when he said that how Nazis classified Jews ie you and Jewish if one of your four grandparents is Jewish is not the same as how Orthodox Jews classified each other ie you are only Jewish if your mother is Jewish?
If the Orthodox rabbis are right that you are only Jewish if your mother is Jewish, then why was Rabbi Mizrachi incorrect in dividing 6 million - the official number of Jews killed by Nazis - by 4?
If the Nazi definition of who is Jewish is wider than the the Orthodox definition of who is Jewish, which is correct? I would instinctively prefer the definition of an Orthodox Jew to that of an antisemite, but you seem to be saying that you as a Jew prefer the wider Nazi definition over the narrower definition of Orthodox Judaism. Can you please confirm because I find that so unbelievably perverse.
If the entire basis of Judaism is belief in God, why would you expect people to defer to the opinions of secular Jews such as yourself over the opinions of Ultra Orthodox rabbis who take the beliefs of Orthodox Judaism literally?
Are you equating offensiveness to secular Jews with being politically incorrect? Are you in a way accusing Rabbi Mizrachi of heresy against secular liberalism?
Are you as a Jew assuming that secular liberalism is more correct than Orthodox Judaism? On what basis do you make that assumption since we all know that Judaism has had a longer track record than liberal democracy which you have implicitly admitted to be your conceptual idol?
My statements about Christianity being idolatry is based on the 13 Principles of Judaism by Maimonides and in particular the Third Principle of Judaism stating that God must not be conceived of as in any way material or physical or like anything humans have ever seen or experienced. In other words, it is idolatry to worship a man the way Christians do. Are you as a Jew saying Christianity is not idolatry? If so, what is the authority for your proposition that Christianity is not idolatry?
How am I a fool for noticing that Judaism and Islam are agreed on the oneness of God making Christianity the odd one out for its idolatry and blasphemy?
Your indifference to idolatry and blasphemy suggests that you don’t think Jews have a religious obligation to promote the Noahide laws. Your indifference to the religious obligation of Judaism is based on your atheism. Are you aware that Rabbi Schneerson who was once thought to be the Messiah said Jews have a duty to teach gentiles the Noahide laws?
If the late Rabbi Schneerson believed Jews have a mission to teach gentiles the Noahide laws, then it must also be assumed that not doing do incurs a penalty which could take the form of antisemitic persecution of Jews which Jews are obliged to consider during Tisha B’Av every summer. Is this a matter you have ever addressed your mind to and are you familiar with the curses for disobedience stated in Deuteronomy 28?
Are you aware that that the Messiah when he arrives is supposed to have a summer birthday ie a birthday that falls on Tisha B’Av? I suppose I should just mention for good measure that I have a birthday that falls on Tisha B’Av.
Are you aware that if God exists, then suffering can be explained as punishment for sin?
If you wish to stop suffering and you believe that suffering is punishment for sin, isn’t repentance the obvious course of action? I believe Jews call this teshuvah.
Consider the position if the following are true.
1) Idolatry and blasphemy are forbidden by God in the Ten Commandments and Seven Noahide laws.
2) Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy.
3) Jews have a religious obligation to warn gentiles against idolatry and blasphemy.
4) The last three global empires have been Christian.
Do you think both Jews and Christians should expect punishment from God if He exists?
Are you really dismissing reincarnation just because you are offended by its implications?
What about Orthodox Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who believe this sort of thing?
Dismissed by a wave of your magic liberal wand!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation
As for Jews whose deaths were caused by Nazis, I don't see how you can deny that the Nazi definition of who is a Jew is four times wider than that of the definition of Orthodox Judaism. That is presumably why Rabbi Mizrachi divided 6 million by 4 to arrive at a figure of "not even 1 million".
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-rabbi-not-even-1-million-jews-killed-in-holocaust/
Whatever you think of Rabbi Mizrachi's views, I just don't see how you can deny the logic of his conclusion.
I am aghast that you are angry with me for the beliefs of Judaism. I neither conceived of them nor did I propagate them. If you dislike the narrative and principles of Judiasm, then you are at liberty to disbelieve them and take it up with God if and when you ever meet Him, but there is no denying that these are indeed the beliefs of Judaism and not something I just cooked up to upset and offend you and other secular liberal Jews like you.
Perhaps the reason why you are getting on your high horse about Rabbi Mizrachi is that Judaism is not your religion but liberal democracy is. Presumably that is why you are talking to me as if I were some kind of heretic, when I am only telling you what Ultra Orthodox Jews believe and the basis on which Rabbi Mizrachi arrived at his conclusions.
Perhaps you are angry with him because despite the fact that he never went to an Ivy League University, he still manages to win all the arguments over the "university rabbis" that he is always denouncing for bowing before the conceptual idol of liberal democracy.
Have you considered the fact that Judaism, judging by its track record, is more likely to survive liberal democracy?
As for the mental illness you accuse me of suffering from, would you like to suggest what it might be? As far as I am concerned, I have not said anything untrue, illogical or immoral, and have only repeated what I believe to be the principles and beliefs of Judaism by Jews who take Judaism seriously.
The logic of his conclusion make sense only in terms of the arithmetic. It doesn't take a mathematician to know that six minus one leaves five. I reject his (and your) definition of what is a Jew. I grew up in an Orthodox synagogue. I've been intimately acquainted with Orthodox and entirely non-observant Jews (most of whom take Judaism seriously) for my entire life. Yet I've never heard any Orthodox Jew, rabbi or otherwise, assert that "not even 1 million" Jews were murdered in the Holocaust because the rest were assimilated pretenders. That tells me that Mizrachi is at best an extreme outlier and at worst a charlatan of sorts. Either way, he's beneath contempt.
As for you, I'm no psychiatrist so I'm not in a position to diagnose you. But I'm a highly educated human being; and if you believe that autistic children are paying for the sins of previous lives, and that Jewish children were sent to the gas chambers upon arrival at Auschwitz because they were too assimilated (despite the fact that the Jews of Eastern Europe were about as unassimilated as one could be) or were paying for their sins, then your views are bizarre and ahistorical.
I’m neither an atheist nor a liberal. You either haven’t been listening to me or you assume that anyone who doesn’t believe in the God that you envision is an atheist. I assume it’s the latter, which would explain why you buy into Mizrachi’s disgusting claims.
So now you are saying you are a believing Jew? Make up your mind!
I've said that I don't believe in a God that knows our thoughts and intervenes in human affairs, or a God who sat around for over 100,000 years of human existence watching everyone worshipping idols and the sun and moon, and then decides "Okay, enough of that, now's the time to reveal myself." That strikes me as nothing but a fairy tale, but you are free to believe it. I believe in the existence of a God or Creator, but not one that involves himself in human events. That doesn't make me an atheist. As for being a "believing Jew," with all due respect you are not in a position to define for me what it means to be a Jew.
You do know that Spinoza was excommunicated for the heresy of his pantheism, don't you? It is just bizarre that you are so proud of your heresy while calling yourself a "proud Jew"!
As for who is a Jew, it seems that there is a bit of a disagreement between Orthodox Jews and the immigration department of the secular Israeli government.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/world/middleeast/israel-jewish-converts-citizenship.html
My heresy? According to you. This is going nowhere. I'm done here.
You agree with Spinoza and his pantheism. You do know that Spinoza was excommunicated after being cursed by his rabbi and community, don't you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVEeXjPiw54
Of course I'm aware of Spinoza. He was a great philosopher far ahead of his time. He was cursed and excommunicated by a 17th Century community so wedded to fairy tales that they were unable to tolerate, much less understand, a different perception of God and the universe. I stand with Spinoza. If your Rabbi Mizrachi wants to excommunicate me, he's welcome to do so. My status as a Jew doesn't depend on the approval of charlatan rabbis and their followers (like you) who would blame two-year olds for their own murders.
We are not people like you who dismiss the afterlife just because we are offended by some of its implications and can’t understand the moral lessons of the Book of Job because our liberal education has indoctrinated us against belief in the afterlife. After all, belief in reincarnation has been around for much much longer than liberalism! Do you acknowledge that pantheism (ie the belief that the Universe is also God) is idolatry?
Would you say people who believe in good being rewarded and evil being punished in the afterlife are less likely to be criminals than those who don’t?
Apart from offending your liberal sensibilities, what harm do Hindus, Buddhists and Orthodox Jews who believe in reincarnation do?
How is belief that suffering is punishment for sin harmful to society?
Apart from being more politically correct than Rabbi Mizrachi, how are you obviously a better man than him just because he believes in reincarnation which Hindus and Buddhists also do?
Is being part of the American establishment as you are now an absolute measure of success and status bearing in mind that Jews have survived the rise and fall of ancient empires?
Have you considered the fact that it is the practice of Judaism by Orthodox Jews that give Jews their identity? If there were no Jews at all in the world who took the beliefs and practice of Judaism seriously, Jews would lose their identity as Jews, wouldn’t they?
Do you think Heidegger would regard you or Rabbi Mizrachi as living more authentically as Jews?
Why would a secular Jew be regarded as living with more authenticity than a Jew mindful of the theoretical and practical requirements of his tribal religion?
I see you equate the story of the Abrahamic God to a fairytale. WhIle fairytales can be easily falsified, the existence of the Abrahamic God cannot be falsified just because atheist liberals deny His existence incorrectly arguing that the existence of evil as evidence of God’s non-existence. God never promised us a rose garden and the bargain is that we are all to be tested for our ability to correctly understand the situation in this vale of tears and only if we understand and act correctly do we get to the better place in the afterlife. However, even if God doesn’t exist, obedience to God’s laws would tend to make our society more stable and law abiding which is a benefit even for atheists. Our individual status would be raised if we are acknowledged to live in a righteous gentile nation instead of being a citizen of the Great Satan the Iranians call America whose vassal states are NATO members about to start WW3.
How is Rabbi Mizrachi a charlatan just because he doesn’t submit to liberal atheism? Did he misrepresent some aspect of Judaism?
What do you think is the purpose of religion? Can you really deny that it is Judaism that keeps Jews in existence? If you really are a proud Jew as you claim to be, why would you deny the indispensable role of Judaism in keeping Jews in existence?
Judaism is about worshiping the perfectly moral God of Israel believed to be in perfect control of the Universe. If this is so, suffering is either punishment for sin or a test of our fitness to go to the better place. I don’t know why you are getting so angry with me just for describing the beliefs of Judaism.
The positions you’ve taken that I listed above are not the beliefs of Judaism no matter what you or your crackpot rabbi say. If anything, they are an affront to Judaism. But I suppose there are extreme nutcases in every religion, so that’s just how it is. In any event, I don’t think there’s any more to say about this. I’m quite sure that most of the people who have been reading this are just appalled at your views.
I don’t quite see why acknowledging that the Uncaused First Cause is the source of all good and evil humanity experiences is so transgressive or harmful! Reincarnation is an ancient belief that explains suffering. It doesn’t mean we are to treat suffering people badly since charity is enjoined.
As for Jews being the victims of divine punishment, what’s wrong with that? Gentiles would also be victims of divine punishment too.
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