1:38:00 ANDREW SHIPLEY called on to explain his statement that there are some things worth dying for.
1:39:00 The law changes our behaviour.
1:41:00 Which religions are better at what than others? Which denominations are better at what than the others?
1:45:00 Does Andrew know Jonathan Haidt and Jordan Peterson are atheist? Trusting in people batting for the other side is like trusting the coach of a rival team being paid by them to train your team.
1:55:00 LUKE THOMPSON joins to discuss Propositional Tyranny.
1:57:00 Are you saying nothing is verifiable?
1:57:15 We already know Luke can explain very little.
1:57:45 Is Luke saying that because we cannot understand what he is saying, it is our problem but not his, meaning we are stupid, not him? Did anyone make Luke the leading intellectual of TLC?
1:58:00 Not everything requires initiation, as Luke so pretentiously puts it. We can cook a good meal without being "initiated". Is Luke confusing being instructed with being initiated? If so, how careless of him.
2:01:00 You don't have to be a historian to independent verify if you don't believe me that the Founding Fathers read The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire or that it was Gibbon's thesis that the decline and fall of Rome was caused by Christianity. Whether Andrew agrees with this thesis or not, it is clear that the Founding Fathers acted on this information by separating the church from their state.
2:01:15 Why does Andrew who identifies as Christian think it is "irrelevant" that Edward Gibbon said Christianity was responsible for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire? If Christianity has failed the Roman Empire and the institution of absolute monarchy, shouldn't he be concerned about its further failure and the potential consequences of it failing even more Christians?
2:16:00 Gibberish
2:17:00 Andrew confirms that Christianity has failed.
*******************************
45:18
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Every cloud has a silver lining.
47:57
@OfficialSecularKoranism
We mince our words and beat around the bush because we are afraid of offending people. We want to think we have done our duty but fear to do it. People like to pretend that they have done their duty.
49:03
@OfficialSecularKoranism
The reason why I do what I do is to ensure that I have made my point. If you block me and delete my comments, I will be able to deduce that you have understood some of my message but reject it.
49:28
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Many people use words the way an octopus uses ink.
50:08
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Great to hear of Megan's interest in history. It is of course a great part of Western identity and key to Westerners understanding themselves.
51:34
@OfficialSecularKoranism
I have posted my Independence Day greetings to American on Neal Daedulus' video on friendship. If it is already deleted, you will know what to think of him.
52:47
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Perhaps on Independence Day of all days, Americans can bring themselves to read George Washington's farewell speech and work out how much of it has been ignored.
53:40
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava She is that rare bird: an honest and reasonable woman who is also kind and courageous .
54:52
@SeekingGenuine
thank you Claire <3
55:28
@ChristianDiaspora
Pragmatism: the American contribution to philosophy 😊
56:34
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@ChristianDiaspora Pragmatism is just being unprincipled.
56:54
@alohm
The Inventors of Pragmatism found it wanting and worked on Radical Empiricism. James and Pierce*
57:20
@ChristianDiaspora
Have you read William James, Claire? 🤔
57:33
@ChristianDiaspora
Could be diverting 😆
58:05
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@ChristianDiaspora No. Why?
58:16
@alohm
William James and CS Pierce are both worth the time to read, I agree
58:37
@stefaniecristos8514
I’ll take the bait further: *if* that is true, and all of his ideas and insults were also “true/factual”, did that make his actions in this commnunity righteous?
58:51
@alohm
As a banker I had ethical rules to hold to
1:00:56
@alohm
Many are more afraid of being proven wrong that proving they are right 😉
1:01:00
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@alohm What were they?
1:01:52
@OfficialSecularKoranism
I am always challenging people to prove me wrong and people would rather disengage than try.
1:03:25
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Were James and Pierce atheists?
1:03:29
@stefaniecristos8514
Well there we are we our separate truths, Morty. My interactions with him frightened me. He was angry and unhinged and very rude and I thought dangerous. And i could not hear the gold in his heart
1:05:15
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Nathan blocked me on all social media accounts. Shortly before he did his thing, I offered to appear on his channel. He preferred to act out his murder fantasy on his channel instead.
1:05:20
@alohm
I agree - Christians are often great, but the many public ones often make the majority look worse...
1:05:43
@MortyLlava
I took his passion as a form of righteous indignation. I shouldnt have to qualify that I didn't say he was a symbol of perfection, but if it makes you feel safer, I admit i didnt always agree with him
1:06:08
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Nathan was clearly a narcissist and exhibitionist. He only argued for the sake of arguing and drawing attention to himself.
1:06:23
@MarcInTbilisi
agreed Claire
1:06:34
@stefaniecristos8514
Thank you, I love this great flawed Nation. It is worth celebrating.
1:06:39
@alohm
Wisdom is knowing the limits of your knowledge
1:06:53
@alohm
I was a sinner, I am a sinner now
1:07:49
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@stefaniecristos8514 That a proposition nation is a theocracy promoting universal values God supports is a great American identity!
1:07:53
@stefaniecristos8514
Claire, Marc thank you for saying that. I hate to think I completely misjudged him, although I must leave room for that possibility.
1:08:12
@alohm
open to correction matches the personality profile of openness..
1:09:11
@OfficialSecularKoranism
We are all flawed, and define ourselves by a recognisable pattern of behaviour.
1:09:34
@alohm
deut 5.29 - the heart of our hearts - The discernment is knowing good from wrong - as a muscle we must develop and exercise..
1:09:41
@MortyLlava
morality is taught from mythos, ethics is reasoned via logos
1:10:36
@ChristianDiaspora
Marc may share my preference for a revelation of God, with implications for metaphysics and ethics - as opposed to the popular view of a revelation of metaphysics and ethics with implications for God.
1:10:40
@alohm
There is William James' radical empiricism- He saw the conscious as our koinonia - an external connection to source
1:11:12
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava The Torah represent a quantum leap of morality because, whether true or not, humanity could be said to be in receipt of God's laws in written form.
1:11:48
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@alohm Reform Judaism is indeed pragmatism.
1:12:23
@alohm
James saw this conscience, our consciousness as something that is connected to an external source. A Proto-collective unconscious, or a neo-atman
1:12:40
@ChristianDiaspora
Kant strikes again (!)
1:12:58
@MortyLlava
Plato warned us 2500 years ago about only using mythos as your only lens for reality
1:12:58
@alohm
Yes Brett that is the Deut 5:29 - we are given that discernment - hamavdil - but we must utilize it...
1:13:07
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@alohm We already know what God's laws are supposed to be either in the Torah or the Koran. Anyone who cares about God's laws would just read both and make comparisons.
1:13:35
@teestrypzSOG
even if our God doesn't save us from the fire, we're not bowing to your idol
1:14:04
@alohm
read Deuteronimy 5:29 now 😉
1:14:21
@alohm
read Deuteronomy 5:29 even
1:15:16
@alohm
Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever!
1:15:25
@teestrypzSOG
the morning crew migrating to signal instead of discord is an interesting TLC development
1:15:25
@MortyLlava
Rockefeller removed logic from the LA&S Trivium and call is "language arts", and wonder why people don't know how to reason
1:15:37
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Islamophobes are too full of Islamophobia to bring themselves to read the Koran just to be in a position to make a comparison between the Torah and Koran.
1:17:43
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@teestrypzSOG I suspect my haters who have blocked me would be more in Signal than here.
1:18:22
@MortyLlava
Greek Septuagint wasn't translated from Hebrew so why pretend it was?
1:18:52
@teestrypzSOG
@OfficialSecularKoranism if every part of your body that you touch hurts, your finger might be broken
1:19:45
@SeekingGenuine
the two wolves
1:20:02
@SeekingGenuine
which one wins? the one you feed
1:21:48
@teestrypzSOG
because God is Terrible!
1:22:08
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@teestrypzSOG I have gathered that Luke is leader of Signal.
1:22:28
@teestrypzSOG
yes it is, God's justice is super scary
1:23:06
@the.marylander
lol watch this guy twist and turn shoving a square peg in a round hole trying to explain why fear doesn't mean fear 🤣
1:23:10
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Christians are known to accuse other Christians of taking the law in the Old Testament too seriously as Judaizers.
1:23:40
@teestrypzSOG
Psalm 47:2
1:23:47
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@AT_Shipley I was impressed with you saying yesterday that something things are worth dying for.
1:24:38
@OfficialSecularKoranism
If some things are worth dying for, would you agree that some things are worth arguing about, Andrew?
1:25:21
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@the.marylander Who is this AL?
1:25:54
@AT_Shipley
I think people are worth fighting for.
1:26:34
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Who is worth fighting for, Andrew?
1:26:52
@teestrypzSOG
a girl worth fighting for 🎶
1:27:01
@OfficialSecularKoranism
What is the religion of AL?
1:28:25
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Aren't we entitled to know the religion of AL since he presumes to lecture us?
1:30:06
@OfficialSecularKoranism
No one going to tell me the religion of AL?
1:30:20
@OfficialSecularKoranism
It's HESS SED.
1:31:59
@OfficialSecularKoranism
The law is just a MINIMUM STANDARD. We need that though.
1:32:02
@alohm
1st timothy 8-11 the law
1:32:55
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Which minimum moral standard should we base our laws on? I am saying that there is an obvious answer.
1:33:45
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Do people really want to move away from their communities when they retire?
1:34:44
@OfficialSecularKoranism
The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
1:35:03
@teestrypzSOG
I'm with Claire
1:35:15
@OfficialSecularKoranism
"Let them fear you if they do not love you."
1:35:54
@alohm
Deference
1:35:58
@OfficialSecularKoranism
So, Andrew, you don't think propositions are worth arguing about after all?
1:36:40
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Andrew, would you say propositions are principles and/or moral convictions?
1:37:58
@OfficialSecularKoranism
What Stefanie said reminded me of a conversation I had with a friend who said "Morality is just a feeling." The debate did not end well for him.
1:38:49
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Talking about children, they are moral agents too as they complain that something is not fair.
1:39:34
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Children are all id. It is as we get older that we understand our ego and superego.
1:40:42
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava Yesterday, Andrew said there are things worth dying for. Now it seems he no longer thinks there are things worth arguing about.
1:40:46
@alohm
1st timothy 8-11
1:41:45
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Some religions are better at avoiding the mortal sin of idolatry than others. Christianity actually compels it.
1:43:44
@OfficialSecularKoranism
God if He exists is big enough to take all the blame. If He exists, He must wish more people were capable of entertaining the idea of His existence long enough to blame Him for their suffering.
1:44:51
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@teestrypzSOG Do you think Andrew would be OK about you passing on to me his email to test if he really thinks there are things worth arguing about if there are things worth dying for?
1:45:34
@teestrypzSOG
I would advise him not to Claire
1:47:39
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@teestrypzSOG Isn't it inconsistent of Andrew to say on the one hand that there are things worth dying for but on the other say that his moral convictions are not worth arguing about?
1:49:25
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Two men who have talked about being prepared to die for things are clearly not prepared to defend their beliefs. Is that hypocrisy?
1:49:59
@teestrypzSOG
with you Claire! it is not worth arguing with YOU!
1:50:38
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@teestrypzSOG Why not?
1:51:26
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Does anyone know AL's religion?
1:52:40
@MortyLlava
well stef, supposedly Mcgilchrist claims its science not philosophy
1:53:25
@OfficialSecularKoranism
McGilchrist's theory cannot be verified.
1:53:26
@teestrypzSOG
@OfficialSecularKoranism because you're a below average listener but an expert ranter
1:53:54
@MortyLlava
if the split brain is unconscious or involuntarily, then why discuss it anyways? lol
1:54:02
@MarcInTbilisi
heart, mind, body, master
1:54:25
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@teestrypzSOG Nah, I just ask Christians how Christianity is not idolatry and how Jesus is God, and they all run away.
1:55:12
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@teestrypzSOG I listen enough to notice that Christians have that trait.
1:55:51
@chrishoward8473
@OfficialSecularKoranism Not all of them run away
1:55:58
@MortyLlava
intuition and premonition are additional senses
1:56:15
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Propositional theory is the idea of John Vervaeke who is not known for the usefulness of his ideas. He is another over-promoted colonial.
1:56:40
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@chrishoward8473 You are indeed a noble exception!
1:57:24
@MortyLlava
Prometheus (forethought) vs Epimetheus (afterthought)
1:58:07
@MortyLlava
well Luke, he shouldn't claim it's derived from scientific methods if it's just philosophical art
1:58:11
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Luke should know that it is impossible to explain nonsense. Why are we discussing nonsense?
1:58:31
@teestrypzSOG
when is a proposition not tyranical? Luke thinks books are borderline demonic
1:58:58
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Has Luke heard the story of The Emperor's New Clothes?
1:59:03
@MarcInTbilisi
@OfficialSecularKoranism , 95% of science, & everything else, is nonsense, yet people try to explain it anyway.
1:59:34
@alohm
Beyond meditation manuals, the elephant and rider appear in narrative Buddhist art:
1:59:54
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MarcInTbilisi It is easy to debunk a whole bunch of things with facts and logic.
2:00:27
@MarcInTbilisi
'facts & logic' don't prove anything true or false.
2:00:56
@OfficialSecularKoranism
I guess Andrew won't be releasing his email to me to avoid arguing about his moral convictions. This rather suggests he has none.
2:03:06
@SeekingGenuine
Anything can be used as an excuse to support your agenda or ego, or used to not listen to the other. Which is why proposition is not "bad" but dangerous
2:03:30
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Even atheists claim that their beliefs are based on facts and logic.
2:04:34
@OfficialSecularKoranism
If people who claim to believe in God can't make a sound argument, they deserve failure. Christians are the worst of the Abrahamic religions in being able to use facts & logic to defend their beliefs.
2:05:03
@WhiteStoneName
And having this ongoing discussion in a community about propositions is valuable. We've been doing it for a long time. Not ONLY ideas, but ideas submitted to ongoing, multifaceted relationships.
2:05:41
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Who cares about facts and logic when you have the biggest bombs, army and navy, right? If Christians believe in anything, they believe that might is right.
2:06:42
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava The Trinity itself is post-truth. Christians have been post-truth since the 4th century.
2:07:01
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Is anyone going to tell me the religion of AL?
2:08:30
@alohm
Writing is a different type of cognition
2:08:49
@alohm
We learn to speak, to learn to think, to learn to write, to learn to think...
2:09:13
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava If God exists and idolatry and blasphemy are mortal sins and the Trinity is idolatry, then there must be a big Christian Section in Hell.
2:09:35
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Has Luke read Moby Dick?
2:09:59
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Herman Melville was Muslim.
2:10:25
@alohm
I agree - further full language is impossible with personal and cultural grammar - we use language perspectivally
2:10:58
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava I bet AL doesn't take idolatry seriously. This makes him not a righteous gentile.
2:11:49
@MarcInTbilisi
Wait, Al has a substack? Link please.
2:12:02
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Hey, Luke. Don't you think facts and logic are a survival strategy?
2:12:46
@alohm
atrophy or growth
2:13:05
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Hey, Luke. Do you think Americans can still afford their luxury beliefs of Christo-Liberalism in defiance of facts and logic?
2:15:06
@OfficialSecularKoranism
It turns out that TLC men who say there are things worth dying for didn't really mean it. Worse, they do not even care to defend their moral convictions, presumably because they have none.
2:15:54
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava I think the division between Jews and Muslims is useful.
2:17:12
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Does Luke see himself as the intellectual of TLC?
2:17:37
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Who made Luke the leading intellectual of TLC?
2:18:00
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Does Andrew know that Christendom ended in 1918?
2:18:04
@the.marylander
that's what it's all about
2:19:08
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Has Andrew read my comment responding to his on the video on friendship by Neal Daedulus or has it already been deleted? If so, what does it say about Neal?
2:19:29
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@MortyLlava It was just a hope.
2:20:53
@alohm
left brained
2:21:05
@WhiteStoneName
Scientism loves stopping flow for analysis sake. Science is flow.
2:22:02
@OfficialSecularKoranism
@alohm Why invest in unprovable theories when you already have undisputed truth?
2:26:37
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Are we agreed that propositional tyranny is dogma?
2:29:18
@WhiteStoneName
Don't miss that gem, Al just dropped. "Myths are lived. Identities are other people's stories." So good.
2:31:25
@teestrypzSOG
Rob, you don't know me. I'm from Ondo, we never got taken over by the muhamedist
2:31:38
@alohm
I believe the old mono culture is now a bunch of micro cultures - even within TLC there are many micro groups
2:31:53
@teestrypzSOG
They muslims are my ancestral opps, biatch
2:32:27
@teestrypzSOG
Omo ile luji nimi
2:36:10
@OfficialSecularKoranism
"Socrates is very Christian"?!
2:36:47
@OfficialSecularKoranism
Megan does not know what she has unleashed by allowing Luke to monologue.
2:37:07
@MarcInTbilisi
what's wrong with the word 'chat'?
2:37:08
@OfficialSecularKoranism
It will turn into a one hour monologue if she does not stop him.
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