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Tuesday, 25 March 2014

Condemning terrorism is a distraction from condemning UK foreign policy


  1. What is the point of condemning terrorism?
  2. Can condemning terrorism bring back to life dead victims of terrorism?
  3. Isn't it better to condemn UK foreign policy which gave rise to acts of terrorism from Muslims?
  4. Is it better to hate Muslim terrorists more than one hates UK foreign policy?
  5. How is it better to hate Muslim terrorists more than one hates UK foreign policy?
  6. How does it help to say you hate Muslims or Muslim terrorists more than you hate UK foreign policy, which gave rise to the terrorism complained of?
  7. Is the purpose of saying you condemn Muslim terrorists more than you condemn UK foreign policy to be one of the gang (and that the gang you want to be a member of is a gang of Islamophobes)?
  8. Does Eddy Butler hate Muslims and Muslim terrorists more than he hates UK foreign policy?
  9. Does Claire Khaw hate UK foreign policy more than she hates Muslim terrorists?
  10. Who is more more effective at condemning UK foreign policy?  Claire Khaw or Eddy Butler?
  11. If the cause of terrorism is UK foreign policy, which should you condemn if you want to solve the problem - UK foreign policy or Muslim terrorists?
  12. Is someone who refuses to condemn the symptom (terrorism) but prefers to condemn the cause (UK foreign policy) a traitor?  
  13. Is patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel?
  14. If all patriotism amounts to is "my country right or wrong", should we avoid it in order to avoid scoundrels?
  15. If foreign policy is to have an ethical basis, does the Koran provide a better ethical basis than liberal interventionism?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran_and_violence
  16. Is the life of the average Iraqi better than before it was invaded?
  17. Is the life of the average Afghan now better than before it was invaded?
  18. Is the life of the average citizen in a NATO member state now better than before the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan?
  19. Does the UK even have a foreign policy of its own?
  20. Is not UK foreign policy US foreign policy?
  21. Is not EU foreign policy US foreign policy?
  22. Why are gentiles in the West dying for Israel in the Middle East?  
  23. Did Bin Laden say that whichever party US citizens voted for they would still have a party with the same Zionist policy towards Israel?
  24. Is there a single member of NATO who does not have a Zionist foreign policy?
  25. Why can you not be a member of NATO without having a Zionist foreign policy?
  26. What are the benefits of Zionism for liberal democracies when most of them have a significant number of Muslims in their populations who would be upset by their Zionist policies and who may go on to commit acts of terrorism?
  27. Does being a representative democracy make you vulnerable to manipulation by foreign interests eg AIPAC, Friends of Israel?  http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby
  28. If China decided to have a representative democracy would it end up having a Zionist foreign policy too?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaifeng_Jews
  29. Should Israel adopt Secular Koranism?  http://thevoiceofreason-ann.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/how-to-solve-problem-of-israel.html


  1. Eddy Butler
    23 March
    Tasty bacon sizzling under a hot grill.
    If some people had their way this would be banned and the entire British pig farming industry closed down!

    Photo: Tasty bacon sizzling under a hot grill. If some people had their way this would be banned and the entire British pig farming industry closed down!
    Stop Notifications · 
    • Claire Khaw I like bacon too. The first time I heard a joke about halal bacon, pork and ham was told by a Muslim to me.
      Yesterday at 10:32 · Edited
    • Eddy Butler How broad minded of you. How many other Koranic rules do you wish to break?
      Yesterday at 10:34
    • Claire Khaw The prohibition against shell fish by the Jews was probably to protect Jews from getting ill from shell fish poisoning. I once at a bad oyster and was very very ill. If you are not in robust health the effects of shell-fish poisoning could kill you. 

      As for pork, there are many parasites in it if it is not cooked properly. In Mohammedan times the temptation to skimp on cooking time must have been great indeed. 

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysticercosis

      Cysticercosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      en.wikipedia.org
      Cysticercosis is a tissue infection by the pork tapeworm (Taenia solium).[1] People may have little or no symptoms for years, develop approximately one to two centimeter painless solid bumps in the skin and muscles, or have neurological symptoms if the brain is affected.[1][2] After months or years…
      Yesterday at 10:45 · Edited · Remove Preview
    • Claire Khaw The correct question to ask me would be "Which Koranic rules do you wish to impose?" 

      The answer can be found at https://www.facebook.com/.../Should.../417696111659379...

      Should Spinster Single Mothers be lashed 100 times?

      Is it the only language irresponsible, promiscuous, immoral and stupid women understand?
      Community: 38 like this.
      Yesterday at 10:38 · Remove Preview
    • Claire Khaw I am not the only one in nationalism who thinks SSMs should be discouraged, eh, Charlotte Lewis? 

      http://order-order.com/.../exclusive-browns-gulags-for.../
      Yesterday at 10:39
    • Eddy Butler I think you have just demonstrated that any form of Koranism isn't required in order to support family values and also you demonstrated very well that Islam is stuck in the desert in the Middle Ages and is no sort of program for an advanced western nation. Well done - thanks for that Claire - I will make a nationalist of you yet - I feel a bit like Professor Higgins.
      Yesterday at 10:45 · 1
    • Claire Khaw I have identified the tolerance of widespread illegitimacy as the reason for the decline of the West. I will therefore use all the ideological weapons available to me to shift Western governments from their current mindset of refusing to address the problem of widespread illegitimacy. 

      The West hates and fears Muslims. It is my intention to use their hatred and fear of Muslims and their religion against feminism, which is the cause of Western malaise. 

      Feminism causes immigration and paedophilia.
      Yesterday at 10:50 · Edited
    • Eddy Butler As a strategy that is utterly pitiful - using an immigrant religion to undermine immigration? If that is your aim? You need to get the 'west' to buy into your ideas not repulse people - you need to rethink
      Yesterday at 10:53 · Edited
    • Charlotte Lewis SSMs should definitely be discouraged.
      Yesterday at 10:55
    • Claire Khaw Nationalism is really social conservatism, Eddy. If you fail to understand that, you do not even understand the ideology you claim to support. 

      You can only protect your society and your people by imposing morality, and the purpose of morality is for bringing about social cohesion. 

      Social cohesion means that a society has the ability to make members of that society co-operate with each other to fight internal and external enemies. 

      What you hate about Islam is precisely what you want for yourselves, but are too afraid to admit this. 

      I am sure many nationalists would really like to go around the East End bashing gays, but you are now too afraid to do this. When the Muslim Patrol does this, you hate them for doing what you would really like to do for yourselves.
      Yesterday at 10:57 · Edited
    • Claire Khaw Most profound truths are paradoxical, Eddy. 

      It was a Muslim who told me that you can only fight Muslims with the Koran!
      Yesterday at 10:57
    • Claire Khaw You can only have control over your own borders and immigration policy by leaving the EU, and we can only leave the EU by having a referendum.

      The Islamic principle of Shura is well-established.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shura

      Shura - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      en.wikipedia.org
      Shura (Arabic: شورى shūrā) is an Arabic word for "consultation". The Quran and Muhammad encourage Muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.
      Yesterday at 10:59 · Edited · Remove Preview
    • Eddy Butler There are socially conservative aspects to nationalism but nationalism isn't social conservatism - social conservatism means that you want to conserve or protect or nurture your society - the things that make that society cohesive - which includes importantly our native religion and our native laws - I am so glad you have come around to see this and understand now that Islam in Britain must be opposed. Progress!
      11 hours ago · Edited
    • Eddy Butler I think aircraft carriers are a more effective weapon.
      Democracy is well established in the west as is the principal of holding referenda - surely you know this?
      Yesterday at 11:02 · 1
    • Claire Khaw Can you define nationalism for me, Eddy?
      Yesterday at 11:04
    • Claire Khaw What do you intend to do with aircraft carriers to fight Muslims? Are you a Necon?
      Yesterday at 11:05
    • Claire Khaw Referenda are much rarer than general elections in Britain.
      Yesterday at 11:06
    • Charlotte Lewis I do not eat pork or any other meat, but I'm not a Muslim.
      Yesterday at 11:10
    • Claire Khaw I suppose I should not be too shocked to see that a man who has no principles continuing to confuse "principles" and "principals", but I still find these errors distressing when I am dealing with graduates from good universities and confirms the depth of British degeneracy.
      Yesterday at 11:13 · Edited
    • Eddy Butler Referenda and any sort of proper election are exceptionally rare in any state governed on islamic principals - I'm glad you are reduced to correcting my spelling mistakes - that is your true vocation - as my proof reader.
      Yesterday at 11:16 · Edited
    • Claire Khaw The reason why Muslims suffer is because they have perverted and misunderstood the Koran for centuries. 

      I am proposing that the white man snatch the Koran from their brown hands and interpret it better than they ever did.
      Yesterday at 11:20
    • Eddy Butler Yeah and you were the first person to understand it in 14 centuries - that is damming - you want to snatch some parts from their hands but leave them with the prohibition on bacon and alcohol?
      As a social conservative you MUST support traditional structures such as the old fashioned Church of England even if you are personally an atheist.
      Yesterday at 12:02 · Edited · 1
    • Frank Forte Eddy, you have better things to do than argue with cranks surely?
      Yesterday at 13:44 · 1
    • Claire Khaw All the Abrahamic faiths promote the same moral precepts. I am surprised you don't know it. 

      The Church of England is no longer fit for the purpose of maintaining morality. I do not regard it as constructive or profitable to hang on to broken down boilers that are not economical to have repaired. 

      The C of E is now fatally infested by feminists and liberals. If you want to reform it you would have to propose the disestablishment and the re-establishment of the Church, which would be analogous to switching your computer off and then on again to resolve a glitch.
      Yesterday at 13:47
    • Claire Khaw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person) 

      There is nothing cranky about saying marriage is an institution that should be respected, is there?

      Or that religion is the only way of maintaining and promoting social conservatism?

      Or that widespread illegitimacy leads to degeneracy? 

      And that degeneracy leads inexorably to racial and national decline?

      Crank (person) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      en.wikipedia.org
      "Crank" is a pejorative term used for a person who holds an unshakable belief that most of his or her contemporaries consider to be false.[1] A crank belief is so wildly at variance with those commonly held as to be ludicrous. Cranks characteristically dismiss all evidence or arguments which contrad...
      Yesterday at 13:50 · Edited · Remove Preview
    • Frank Forte What is missing inthese Faiths is SPIRITUALITY. It has been replace with Dogma. In the case of Islam Deadly dangerous Dogma.
      Yesterday at 13:50 · 1
    • Claire Khaw Spirituality is the reward you get for following your religion. 

      Since none of you have a religion or do not practise your religion you do not deserve the reward of spirituality.
      Yesterday at 13:52
    • Claire Khaw You are a Buddhist, Frank. You have embraced an alien religion and fallen for the world's most ineffective and abstract religion hook, line and sinker.
      Yesterday at 13:52
    • Claire Khaw Buddhism is just about pretending you have died or spending your entire life wishing for death, that is how useless it is.
      Yesterday at 13:53
    • Frank Forte Claire you are indeed entitled to your opinion, but before you make remarks about my Faith, please have the decency to know what you are on about before opening your stupid mouth. Buddhism (My Buddhism Nichiren Buddhism) is simply about RESPECT for life and changing bad Karma into good. I usually never decry a faith, but there are exceptions and those are the faiths that SLANDER LIFE a nd would do harm to others. Islam is the top of that list and I will always stand against it.
      Yesterday at 13:58 · 1
    • Claire Khaw A bigot hates what he does not understand and refuses to try to understand what he does not understand. Quite a few of you fit this description, sadly. Eddy has allowed himself to be influenced by these intellectually backward attitudes, because he has for so many years been surrounded by nationalists who are not known for their ability to entertain new ideas or discuss abstract ideas without falling out with each other. Uneducated people behave like that and it cannot be denied that most nationalists have not been educated to a high level.
      Yesterday at 14:00
    • Claire Khaw Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism have had a few scandals in their corrupt priesthood, Frank.
      Yesterday at 14:01
    • Frank Forte Yes Claire, also in the Sokka Gakkai one of the lay societies. I belong to NONE of those, I simply read the teachings of Nichiren himself and do my Buddhist practice, the most of which is chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. You do NOT need to belong to any organisation to do that any more than a lot of Christians are of no particular denomination.
      Yesterday at 14:05
    • Claire Khaw What you people understand is that what you call religion is just state ideology. Our state ideology is not Christianity as you all mistakenly think but PC Liberalism. 

      Basically your state ideology is what your laws encourage and forbid. 

      You hate Muslims because you fear them, and you fear them because they have a stronger ideology than yours. The solution is simple: find an ideology that will make you have a stronger ideology than theirs.
      Yesterday at 14:05
    • Eddy Butler All you demonstrate is that you are not a nationalist and not a social conservative - you are an attention seeking hobbyist and dilettante.
      Yesterday at 14:07 · 1
    • Frank Forte The problem is while one has an Ideology that is good, but when that ideology is one that encourages death and control over non believers then I have to do something about it.
      Yesterday at 14:07
    • Claire Khaw Chanting is not going to change British politics, Frank.
      Yesterday at 14:08
    • Claire Khaw Muslim terrorists act in response to Western foreign policy, Frank. Are you trying to justify the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and the treatment of the Palestinians by the State of Israel?
      Yesterday at 14:10 · Edited
    • Claire Khaw Or perhaps you are saying that the Muslims should just accept whatever the Israelis dish out, and turn the other cheek, like good Christians? 

      Now, why would you say that? And why should they listen to you?
      Yesterday at 14:11
    • Frank Forte It will change ME, I will become more enlightened to the reality of my environment through chanting (I believe) and therefore any actions I make will in fact enable me to make a change. So you are quite wrong there Claire. It is interesting my belief in Buddhism is NOT a blind faith or wishful thinking. It is the utilisation of Life's Laws. When I no longer see the results of my practice in both my own life and my environment. Then I NO LONGER WANT THIS FAITH. If it doesn't work I dion't want it.
      Yesterday at 14:12 · 1
    • Claire Khaw I am sure chanting makes you feel happier and purposeful as an individual, but then you have given up on politics really. 

      Both you and Eddy have. 

      And all you are doing is asking me to give up too. Now, why would you do such a thing and ask me to join your Cult of Apathy, Negativity and Uselessness?
      Yesterday at 14:15 · Edited
    • Frank Forte Claire. I really feel I am pissing in the wind with this, so I am killing this conversation dead as of now. I do not like you and I will not pretend I do. Eddy is right you need to be the centre of attraction at all times. I hope you can get over this insecurity as you really are quite intelligent.
      Yesterday at 14:15
    • Claire Khaw This post was directed at me so I thought it would be polite to respond. Eddy was worried that bacon would be banned under Secular Koranism and I was just telling him that neither pubs nor bacon would be banned if I ever came to power. 

      Why would you wish me not to get the attention I get for saying the things I do? I wish my ideas to be discussed, so I discuss my ideas. All I have to do to get attention is discuss my ideas. 

      If you want attention you are free to find ways of attracting attention to yourself. I would not resent you for that if you have something interesting and constructive to say.
      Yesterday at 14:25 · Edited
    • Frank Forte I do not need chanting to make me feel happier and purposeful I do however need to make sure the causes I make are right for me both now and in my future. THIS is why I chant. If you have something of value to say it is important that you get attention when you say it. BUT, Where you are concerned I feel you are so insecure you have to make yourself noticed. And....I have NOT given up on Politics, I just do not have a political home at the present.
      Yesterday at 14:25
    • Eddy Butler Oh dear now she advocates a pro Islamic foreign policy
      Yesterday at 14:25
    • Claire Khaw I was against the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. 

      Are you saying you approved of that, Eddy?
      Yesterday at 14:27 · Edited
    • Eddy Butler But she is a fake Koranist as she only wants to adopt the laws she likes. That's why she is a fake
      Yesterday at 14:39 · Edited
    • Claire Khaw A Koranist is just someone who wants to follow the Koran. What verse of the Koran have I gone against?
      Yesterday at 14:28
    • Claire Khaw Rules are meant to be broken. No one is claiming that Muslims never indulge in extramarital sex etc, just that Muslims are punished and it is assumed that it is better to punish those who indulge in it that not to punish them. 

      Is anyone claiming that the West is now a better place because most people now have extramarital sex?
      Yesterday at 14:32
    • Eddy Butler My position is not governed by my attitude towards Islam nor fear of reprisals from people who shouldn't be in this country
      Yesterday at 14:40
    • Eddy Butler I have nothing against live firing exercises
      Yesterday at 14:41 · 1
    • Claire Khaw You need to define your ideas more positively than that for ideas to gain traction, but you have no ideas anyway.
      Yesterday at 14:41
    • Eddy Butler Ha! I am far too tolerant as many people point out
      Yesterday at 14:44
    • Claire Khaw I at least raise the standards of debate on your wall.
      Yesterday at 15:08
    • Eddy Butler Errr if you say so
      Yesterday at 15:20
    • Claire Khaw I can't think of anyone else who discusses ideas on your wall, Eddy!
      Yesterday at 15:22
    • Claire Khaw http://www.brainyquote.com/.../e/eleanorroo385439.html

      Eleanor Roosevelt Quotes at BrainyQuote.com
      www.brainyquote.com
      "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt quotes from BrainyQuote.com
      Yesterday at 15:23 · Remove Preview
    • Eddy Butler You don't discuss ideas - you spam - and you are incapable of listening
      Yesterday at 15:31 · 1
    • Mark Asseenontv Scutchings-Stevens This is a long shot from sizzling bacon butties for breakfast !!! Claire, do you propose that we eat roasted dogs heads, instead ? .... 
      22 hours ago · Edited
    • Eddy Butler And sheeps eyes
      22 hours ago
    • Andrew Howarth Claire Khaw, hand her over to Anjem Choudray with a bacon sandwich in her hand.
      20 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw The standard of debate here is abysmal.
      11 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler Under shura, advice or opinion does not bind the ruler to popular will - hence the lack of democracy in states run on an Islamic basis and hence the absence of referenda also. The west hardly needs help from islam on how to hold a referendum.
      11 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw Consultation does not mean obedience, I would be the first to acknowledge that.
      11 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw I wonder what would happen if the British government held a referendum on the EU in which the majority of voters indicated that they would prefer to leave and then ignored it.
      11 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw There is lots of stuff that the BNP want that the Koran could be interpreted to support, but, because you hate Muslims and their religion so much, you won't even acknowledge this. 

      Just remember this: nationalists are lower than the Muslims in the mind of the liberal.
      11 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler You admit that your cranky policy does not provide a basis for a binding referendum - your platform.is fast unraveling.
      Of course nationalists are lower than moslems to a liberal - derrr.
      Why do you think I am.interested in Bnp policy? You are infatuated with them.
      10 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw I am saying "It would be a bit stupid to hold a referendum and then ignore the result."
      10 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw You turned up for a BNP demo not that long ago, Eddy! 

      You can kick the member out of the party but you can't kick the party out of the member. 

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Justice-Lee-Rigby-Soldiers...

      Lee Rigby's family arrive at court wearing matching t-shirts

      Fusilier Rigby, 25, was 'mutilated, almost decapitated and murdered' by Michael Adebowale, 22, and Michael Adebolajo, 29, in Woolwich, south-east London.
      10 hours ago · Remove Preview
    • Claire Khaw An example of a crank is someone who believes that the earth is flat. 

      I am a political activist telling the British what I think is wrong with them, but they don't want to hear it. 

      Because they find my cure detestable, they are suddenly pretending that they are no longer ill.
      10 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler I didn't turn up at a BNP Demo, I was near where they held one - a slight difference that you persist in not being able to fathom - which is par for the course.
      There is more than one type of crank.
      9 hours ago · Edited
    • Claire Khaw You were there to all intents and purposes, Eddy.
      10 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw You swelled the numbers at the demo and must have pleased Nick Griffin by being there to swell the numbers.
      10 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw To now pretend that your presence was incidental to something else is laughable.
      10 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler I don't think anyone is pretending the patient is not ill. Your 'cure' is no different to the disease - it will bring death quicker and more surely.
      And under Koranic law popular advice can be ignored so quite specifically the ruler could ignore any referendum result that went against them - that is a given. You fail again
      9 hours ago · Edited
    • Eddy Butler There were six demos by different groups and most people were in none of the demos - your attempt to include me in a BNP Demo is laughable
      9 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler I suppose the police were part of the BNP Demo and swelled their numbers
      9 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw How can slut-shaming harm the British who are so addicted to cheap slut sex that they avert their eyes to degeneracy caused by widespread illegitimacy?
      9 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw When in history has the result of a plebiscite been ignored?
      9 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw Why did you attend anyway?
      9 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler Why did you slip in that sex obsessed post about slut shaming? Is something on your mind?
      Recently there have been referendums on the EU, in I believe Ireland and Denmark which were ignored and a new one held to get the 'right' result. The 'west' is ignoring the Crimea referendum. You are crushingly ill informed. And that is under a system where there is a presumption to take notice of popular opinion. Under the Koran there is no such presumption. So your Koranic policy lies on tatters.
      I told you before on here why I went to the Old Bailey - you really must learn to pay attention and remember things. I went to see what happened at the trial of the murderous black moslems and to show support for the family. I guess you are hostile to me going and deliberately try to paint it as if I was part of a BNP Demo as you find it hard to condemn the actions of the Moslem murderers and need to deflect things into a discussion about rowdy street demos.
      8 hours ago · Edited · 1
    • Claire Khaw Isn't lashing SSMs 100 times per illegitimate offspring slut-shaming? 

      Isn't that what most British nationalists cannot bear to hear discussed because most of them are illegitimate?

      Isn't that what made you say "Your 'cure' is no different to the disease - it will bring death quicker and more surely"?
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw What exactly is your point about referenda?

      That Muslims will ignore them the same way non-Muslim Europeans do?
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw The way to deal with that would be to throw out of government the political parties that ignore the result of a referendum, but the voter has a very short memory and does not address his mind to foreign policy at general elections. 

      And that is why I say the franchise should be narrowed.
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw http://www.theguardian.com/.../lee-rigby-family-calm-protest would suggest that Lee Rigby's family didn't want you there to "showing your respect".

      Lee Rigby's family call for calm as far-right groups plan day of protest
      www.theguardian.com
      Relatives say murdered soldier had friends of different cultures and would not want his death used as excuse for violence
      8 hours ago · Edited · Remove Preview
    • Claire Khaw I have said that I condemn UK foreign policy, so why would I condemn Muslim terrorists who condemn the very same UK foreign policy that I condemn? 

      My point is that if you really condemn UK foreign policy you would condemn UK foreign policy without fear or favour. 

      You certainly don't condemn Muslim terrorists who condemn the same UK foreign policy that you have already condemned. 

      The trouble is that you people don't understand the concept of principle at all, do you?

      Your position remains boneheaded: "Only I can condemn UK foreign policy, but not Muslims whom I hate."

      It just shows unprincipled you really are and/or ignorant of the nature and purpose of following a principle. 

      Following a principle does not mean "I only support a principle as long as the people I hate do not support it" as you seem to think.
      8 hours ago · Edited
    • Eddy Butler Your cure is to make the Koran the basis of our law. Clearly I was referring to that.
      Your lurid obsession with lashing sluts is just an example of your nuttiness. I can't imagine that anyone would be frightened of this or could not bear to discuss it - it is mere crankery on your part that borders on perversion.
      My point about referenda is that you falsely claimed that the Koran would provide for a referenda on the EU that would result in Britain leaving the EU - it was a downright lie as under the Koran the presumption is that the ruler can ignore any opinion he doesn't like whereas in the west the presumption is that the ruler would take notice. However even in the west this is not always the case. You naively asked if any referenda had been ignored so i gave you examples. You aren't very good at debating are you?
      Your policy on narrowing the franchise is not based on the Koran I take it
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw Secular Koranism would mean lashing SSMs 100 times per illegitimate offspring. I know none of you can bear to propose anything effective to deal with your problem of widespread illegitimacy. 

      Indeed, many ignorant nationalists say that as long as the babies born are white babies, they don't care if they are illegitimate. Kevin Watmough of the BPP is one such but he is a Methodist who should know better. 

      You are averse to any measure that would restrict the sexual liberation of the people, Eddy, because you are one of the many many British men who only pay lip service to the idea of respecting marriage. 

      I am just here to remind you that the reality of respecting marriage is to forbid extramarital sex and punish those who indulge in it. 

      Because you cannot bear this idea, you call me mad. 

      But how else can these women be discouraged?

      You don't care because you don't really want to discourage them.
      8 hours ago · 1
    • Claire Khaw Narrowing the franchise is not forbidden by the Koran, Eddy!
      8 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler You have some form of mental block dont you?
      I didn't go to the Old Bailey as part of a demo or protest by any far right group. Can you grasp that? So the family didn't not want me there.
      So you don't want to condemn those blacks who killed lee Rigby - that is the crux of the matter that you just admitted to - so it was ok so far as you are concerned for them to kill lee Rigby because they opposed British foreign policy.
      In a nutshell you have summed up why all moslems incl.uding yourself should be expelled as they and you are potentially violent and murderous if they oppose our foreign policy - they have a conflict of interest as their loyalty is not 100% to this country - as clearly neither is yours - and you claim to be a nationalist - what a joke. You and everyone who is disloyal should be expelled.
      8 hours ago · Edited
    • Claire Khaw You were a member of the BNP. The BNP had a demo. You were there. I will let the facts speak for themselves.
      8 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler It is legitimate for a British citizen to oppoSe British foreign policy if they think it is not in britain's interest. It is not legitimate for a so called British citizen to oppose British foreign policy because they have some sort of connection to the foreign state that is the object of that policy. If that is the case they have divided loyalties and they are traitors
      8 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler You should be expelled from the country as a traitor
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, Eddy! 

      Nelson Mandela was convicted of the terrorist charges and now white people are forced to worship him. 

      Why should I suddenly think UK foreign policy is right when I said it was wrong before, just because Muslim terrorists committed acts of terrorism in protest at UK foreign policy? 

      The sensible thing to do when something like that happens is to take the position of "I told you so. It was a bad idea to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, and the terrorism provoked as a result of invading Iraq and Afghanistan in a busy London street in broad daylight strengthens all the arguments against the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan." 

      This is what the BNP should have done, but they are so easy to distract from making this point because they hate Muslims so much and are not very bright.
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw Are you saying that you now approve of invading Iraq and Afghanistan, Eddy?
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw Whom have I betrayed? Is anyone who opposes the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan a traitor? There are a few MPs who would fall under this category then.
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw Are all these parties who opposed the invasion of Iraq "traitors"?

      http://en.metapedia.org/.../List_of_UK_MPs_who_voted_for...

      Parties who opposed the Iraq War - List of UK MPs who voted for Iraq War - Metapedia
      en.metapedia.org
      The list of UK MPs who voted for the Iraq War refers to Members of Parliament in the United KingdomHouse of Commons who voted in favour of Tony Blair's New Labour regime motion for participating in the Iraq War. The vote took place on the 18 March 2003 and it couched its position as authorising "all...
      8 hours ago · Edited · Remove Preview
    • Claire Khaw I have no connection with Iraq or Afghanistan, by the way.
      8 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw MPs WHO OPPOSED THE INVASION OF IRAQ

      Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North & Stoke Newington) 
      Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (also Eurosceptic and against intervention in Libya)
      John Austin (Erith & Thamesmead) 
      Tony Banks (West Ham) 
      Harry Barnes (Derbyshire North East) 
      John Battle (Leeds West) 
      Andrew Bennett (Denton & Reddish) 
      Joe Benton (Bootle) (also against gay marriage)
      Dr Roger Berry (Kingswood) 
      Harold Best (Leeds North West) 
      Bob Blizzard (Waveney) 
      Keith Bradley (Manchester Withington) 
      Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) 
      Ms Karen Buck (Regent's Park & Kensington North) 
      Richard Burden (Birmingham Northfield) 
      Ms Anne Campbell (Cambridge) 
      Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley) 
      Martin Caton (Gower) 
      David Chaytor (Bury North) 
      Michael Clapham (Barnsley West & Penistone) 
      Mrs Helen Clark (Peterborough) 
      Tom Clarke (Coatbridge & Chryston) 
      Tony Clarke (Northampton South) 
      Harry Cohen (Leyton & Wanstead) 2
      Iain Coleman (Hammersmith & Fulham) 
      Michael Connarty (Falkirk East) 
      Frank Cook (Stockton North) 
      Robin Cook (Livingston) 
      Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (also Eurosceptic and against intervention in Libya)
      Jim Cousins (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) 
      Tom Cox (Tooting) 
      David Crausby (Bolton North East) 
      Ms Ann Cryer (Keighley) 
      John Cryer (Hornchurch) 
      Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow) 
      Ms Valerie Davey (Bristol West) 
      Ian Davidson (Glasgow Pollok) 
      Denzil Davies (Llanelli) 
      Terry Davis (Birmingham Hodge Hill) 
      Hilton Dawson (Lancaster & Wyre) 
      John Denham (Southampton Itchen) 
      Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester) 
      Jim Dobbin (Heywood & Middleton) (also against gay marriage)
      Frank Dobson (Holborn & St Pancras) 
      Frank Doran (Aberdeen Central) 
      David Drew (Stroud) 
      Huw Edwards (Monmouth) 
      Clive Efford (Eltham) 
      Bill Etherington (Sunderland North) 
      Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central) 
      Paul Flynn (Newport West) 
      Hywel Francis (Aberavon) 
      George Galloway (Glasgow Kelvin) 
      Neil Gerrard (Walthamstow) 
      Dr Ian Gibson (Norwich North) 
      Roger Godsiff (Birmingham Sparkbrook & Small Heath) (also Eurosceptic and against intervention in Libya)
      Win Griffiths (Bridgend) 
      John Grogan (Selby) 
      Patrick Hall (Bedford) 
      David Hamilton (Midlothian) 
      Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) 
      Dai Havard (Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney) 
      Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne North) 
      Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) 
      David Heyes (Ashton under Lyne) 
      David Hinchliffe (Wakefield) 
      Ms Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) 
      Jimmy Hood (Clydesdale) 
      Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) 
      Ms Joan Humble (Blackpool North & Fleetwood) 
      Dr Brian Iddon (Bolton South East) 
      Eric Illsley (Barnsley Central) 
      Ms Glenda Jackson (Hampstead & Highgate) 
      Ms Helen Jackson (Sheffield Hillsborough) 
      Jon Owen Jones (Cardiff Central) 
      Dr Lynne Jones (Birmingham Selly Oak) 
      Martyn Jones (Clwyd South) 
      David Kidney (Stafford) 
      Peter Kilfoyle (Liverpool Walton) 
      Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North & Leith) 
      David Lepper (Brighton Pavilion) 
      Terry Lewis (Worsley) 
      Ian Lucas (Wrexham) 
      Iain Luke (Dundee East) 
      John Lyons (Strathkelvin & Bearsden) 
      Mrs Christine McCafferty (Calder Valley) 
      John McDonnell (Hayes & Harlington) (also Eurosceptic and against intervention in Libya)
      Ms Ann McKechin (Glasgow Maryhill) 
      Kevin McNamara (Hull North) 
      Tony McWalter (Hemel Hempstead) 
      Ms Alice Mahon (Halifax) 
      Jim Marshall (Leicester South) 
      Robert Marshall-Andrews (Medway) 
      Eric Martlew (Carlisle) 
      Ms Julie Morgan (Cardiff North) 
      Chris Mullin (Sunderland South) 
      Denis Murphy (Wansbeck) 
      Doug Naysmith (Bristol North West) 
      Eddie O'Hara (Knowsley South) 
      Ms Diana Organ (Forest of Dean) 
      Albert Owen (Ynys Mon) 
      Ms Linda Perham (Ilford North) 
      Peter Pike (Burnley) 
      Kerry Pollard (St Albans) 
      Gordon Prentice (Pendle) 
      Gwyn Prosser (Dover) 
      Ken Purchase (Wolverhampton North East) 
      John Robertson (Glasgow Anniesland) 
      Joan Ruddock (Lewisham Deptford) 
      Martin Salter (Reading West) 
      Mohammad Sarwar (Glasgow Govan) 
      Malcolm Savidge (Aberdeen North) 
      Philip Sawford (Kettering) 
      Brian Sedgemore (Hackney South & Shoreditch) 
      Ms Debra Shipley (Stourbridge) 
      Alan Simpson (Nottingham South) 
      Marsha Singh (Bradford West) 
      Chris Smith (Islington South & Finsbury) 
      Llew Smith (Blaenau Gwent) 
      George Stevenson (Stoke-on-Trent South) 
      Dr Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East & Musselburgh) 
      Graham Stringer (Manchester Blackley) 
      David Taylor (Leicestershire North West) 
      Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) 
      Paul Truswell (Pudsey) 
      Dr Desmond Turner (Brighton Kemptown) 
      Bill Tynan (Hamilton South) 
      Rudi Vis (Finchley & Golders Green) 
      Ms Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) 
      Robert Wareing (Liverpool West Derby) 
      Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test) 
      Alan Williams (Swansea West) 
      Mrs Betty Williams (Conwy) 
      Mike Wood (Batley & Spen) (also Eurosceptic and against intervention in Libya)
      Tony Worthington (Clydebank & Milngavie) 
      David Wright (Telford) 
      Dr Tony Wright (Cannock Chase) 
      Derek Wyatt (Sittingbourne & Sheppey)
      8 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler You refuse to condemn murder because it was in supposed opposition to a foreign policy matter that you oppose because you have an attachment to islam that outweighs you our attachment to Britain.
      You are a traitor end of story - you should be expelled en.d of story.
      You are too stupid to even read what I said as the reason why you are a traitor.
      You also excuse terrorism.
      You should be expelled - no wonder every nationalist group and we very political party of every stripe has expelled you - you should be expelled from thus country as you are not fit to live in it
      8 hours ago · Edited
    • Claire Khaw You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I do not condemn the Muslim terrorists for the same reason I did not condemn Anders Breivik. 

      Can you work out what that reason is, Eddy?
      7 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler You are too thick to.understand why I said you are a traitor and those mps are not - you are a traitor whose presence is a security risk
      7 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler I am uninterested in your perverse reasoning - you should be expelled
      7 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw The answer can be found in this essay athttp://livinginamadhouse.wordpress.com/.../why-liberals.../

      Why liberals are terrified by Anders Breivik
      livinginamadhouse.wordpress.com
      Robert Henderson The trial of the mass killer Anders Breivik  in Oslo is truly r...See more
      7 hours ago · Remove Preview
    • Claire Khaw You can expel me when you are in power, Eddy, or even send me to the Tower ...
      7 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler You are the enemy of the nation - part of the fifth column - and no one wants to be associated with you. You have finally come clean and admitted your treason
      7 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw What is the difference between Eddy and me?

      I am more against the invasion of Iraq than him. 

      So, if you are against the invasion of Iraq, you should vote for me, rather than Eddy, who hates Muslims more than he hates the invasion of Iraq. 

      Obviously, vote for Eddy if you prefer someone who hates Muslims more than he hates UK foreign policy.
      7 hours ago
    • Claire Khaw Really? Is saying you are more opposed to UK foreign policy than you hate Muslims "treason" these days?
      7 hours ago
    • Eddy Butler I have decided to 'de-friend' Claire Khaw on a matter of principle out of respect for the Rigby family because she supports the right of the two black Moslem murders to kill Lee Rigby due to their supposed opposition to British foreign policy in the Middle East and because she shares their opposition to that foreign policy for the same reasons as them. She shares their view which is why she will not condemn them. I find this reprehensible.
      7 hours ago · Edited · 1
    • Mark Asseenontv Scutchings-Stevens I agree. She does set up some pointless arguments . 
      41 minutes ago
    • Eddy Butler I don't like to stiffle debate. I am unconcerned by people opposing foreign policy. It would have been acceptable at the outbreak of WW1 for example to oppose the war - maybe because the person was a pacifist, or they thought it was strategically unwise, or they worried about the cost. It would be treason to oppose the war because you were pro German.
      She refused to condemn lee Rigby's murderers because she agreed with their motivation - which was opposition to our intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan because we should not intervene or invade a Moslem country. This is a treasonable reason for opposing the war and her excuses for the murderers behaviour - saying one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter illustrates that she sympathized with them and had a treacherous reason for opposing the war.
      She made excuses for that horrific murder which I regard as unforgivable and reprehensible.
      The MPs who opposed the war in the main did so for legitimate reasons such as those I gave for opposing WW1.
      21 minutes ago

Whether they are Muslim countries is beside the point.  I would have condemned the invasion even if Iraq and Afghanistan were non-Muslim countries, because I do not believe you should invade other people's countries for no good reason.

There are those who would rather display their hatred of Muslims than concentrate on condemning UK foreign policy.  I just don't happen to be one of them.

People do not become terrorists for fun, and if people are prepared to give up their life, limb and liberty to make a political point, then they must have a grievance.  If they do have a grievance then it is only right that we should consider what we can fairly and reasonably do to resolve their grievance. 
at
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