4:00 GANDALF joins.
7:00 What Gandalf isn't
8:00 How Church of Entropy defines morality
9:00 Why my definition of morality is better than Church of Entropy's
10:00 https://churchofentropy.wordpress.com/2019/06/25/morality-from-nihilism/
11:00 What does "causal universe" mean?
12:00 The cosmological argument
13:00 The difference between a causal universe and the cosmological argument is that the cosmological argument says the Abrahamic God was the Uncaused First Cause while those who deny His existence claims that the Universe itself was the Uncaused First Cause.
18:00 Pantheism, idolatry and Spinoza
20:00 The difference between pantheism and panentheism
23:00 Precipitate: cause (a substance) to be deposited in solid form from a solution.
27:00 Why is it offensive to Gandalf that people believe in the Abrahamic God? Is it because he is an atheist pretending to believe in God?
30:00 Why is the Jen God better than the Abrahamic God when it is conceptually inferior?
34:00 Gandalf: "Man seeks God."
35:00 People pray to God because they want their prayers answered.
37:00 Gandalf: "Belief in the Abrahamic God is heretical."
39:00 Gandalf: "The Abrahamic God is unscientific."
40:00 Gandalf denies that Entropism is a Jen-created religion.
43:00 The purpose of religion is to bind society in social cohesion.
44:00 What are heuristics?
46:00 Gandalf has seen "the far edge of reality".
47:00 Morality and scripture
48:00 Church of Entropy's so-called oral tradition
49:00 Oral traditions are primitive and come from people who lived before writing was invented. Church of Entropy wants us to return to this primitivism so that we will be even stupider and more degenerate and easier to exploit and abuse.
50:00 The decline of Christendom was caused by universal literacy, according to Gandalf.
52:00 30 Years War
53:00 Gandalf says because the Bible was translated into the vernacular, people disbelieved in it. My view is that because Christianity is so patently absurd, people began to openly disbelieve in it the moment it was legal not to after the Doctrine of the Trinity Act 1813 was passed and after the Americans quarantined the church from their state.
54:00 Jews and Muslims believe their scripture is the directly revealed Word of God.
55:00 While Jews and Muslims argue over which interpretation of the Word of God is superior, they are at least agreed on which scripture is supposed to be the Word of God. Christians never claimed the New Testament was written by Christ, let alone God. The New Testament is therefore no more than hearsay as to the existence of Christ.
56:00 If the distillation of Christian wisdom comes from Sermon on the Mount, it isn't very wise, is it, compared to the Torah, the Tanakh or the Koran? As well as suffering from an obviously inferior scripture, Christianity also violates God's commandments against idolatry and blasphemy by worshipping an executed revolutionary as the co-equal of the supreme and eternal Abrahamic God that created the Universe and now exists outside it as pure spirit.
58:00 "The strange doctrines of Christianity"
Why did God have to choose the Jews?
What did God choose the Jews to do?
59:00 The Axial Age
1:02:00 Just because great civilisations existed before the Jews doesn't invalidate the idea that Jews are God's Chosen People chosen to Noahidise the world. The fact that they remain in existence after all the great civilisations that persecuted them and tried to exterminate them have become extinct suggests that the purpose for which they were chosen remains unfulfilled.
1:03:00 Civilisation comes from the Latin "civis".
"Civis" means citizen ie a resident of a city.
1:04:00 City states of Athens and Rome. The rules of living in a city would be different to that of rural living where people would organise themselves into tribes. Implicit in the city-state is the idea of the rule of law eg the Twelve Tables of Rome.
1:05:00 Gandalf denies Jews were persecuted in Egypt.
1:06:00 Measuring the success of religion
1:07:00 Usury
1:08:00 Jubilee
1:09:00 What is the point of being a member of a club that treat its members worse than non-members?
1:12:00 The rules of religion
1:13:00 Gandalf claims he masters nature.
1:14:00 The purpose of religion
1:16:00 The link between the rule of law and the expansion of empires
1:18:00 Why complain about imperialism when America is the world's greatest global empire and you are an American? All empires have cannon fodder. Soldiers are honoured on Veterans' Day and workers on May Day.
1:20:00 Empires are created, sustained and lost by war.
1:21:00 What did the soldiers of so many countries think they were dying for in the Crimean War? Can anyone even now explain what it was all about in a way that soldiers and their loved ones might appreciate and agree with?
Who does Gandalf mean when he talks about "foreign groups and occult interests"?
1:22:00 European monarchs were quite frequently not born in or brought up in the countries they exercised kingship over, and neither were their spouses.
1:23:00 Usury and paper money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaozi_(currency)
1:25:00 All empires are logically and necessarily multiracial and multicultural.
1:26:00 War is an enterprise that needs war finance to fund.
1:27:00 If you don't like usury, abolish usury with Islam.
1:29:00 CHURCH OF ENTROPY joins, all guns blazing.
1:31:00 Freedom of belief in Malaysia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Malaysia
1:32:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Chinese
1:34:00 Bank of England
1:36:00 Church of Entropy thinks Leopold Weiss was a Bad Jew but Pakistanis seem quite fond of him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Asad
1:38:00 Because Leopold Weiss AKa Muhammad Asad was a Jew, Church of Entropy concludes that Christianity and Islam are both "Jewish religions" invented by Jews to exploit credulous gentiles who should instead embrace her religion and believe in her god whose morality is based on the Vedas that she has never read.
1:39:00 Everyone knows that Islam is supposed to abolish usury, but it is hard to do when everyone else is practising it. It is like trying to give up drink when all your friends are drunkards. That is why Secular Koranism - which would abolish usury - must go global.
1:41:00 Church of Entropy repeats the answer I always give on why it takes Islam to abolish it. Hitler tried to abolish usury, but since he did not convert Germany to Islam, usury was not abolished. Perhaps if he had used his time as dictator more profitably by using the talents of Goebbels to sell Islam to the Germans and dropped his antisemitism, things would have turned out differently for the Third Reich.
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/weimar-germany/gottfried-feder/
1:42:00 No religion other than an Islam proposes to abolish usury.
1:45:00 Church of Entropy refuses to debate me even though she has Gandalf by her side.
1:48:00 Christine Ramsay, Catholic
1:52:00 Church of Entropy rejected Catholicism.
1:53:00 We discuss her allegedly Jewish ancestry. Jen says her German ancestors come from Liebling, Romania which has no Jews according to the Wikipedia entry.
Liebling is a commune in Timiș County, Romania about 30 km south of Timișoara. It is composed of three villages: Cerna, Iosif and Liebling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebling,_Timi%C8%99
https://yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Banat
[So some Jews did settle in the countryside. Jews who did not want to move became Protestant to stay where they were.]
https://academic.oup.com/hgs/article-abstract/29/1/39/625377?redirectedFrom=PDF
1:25:00 All empires are logically and necessarily multiracial and multicultural.
1:26:00 War is an enterprise that needs war finance to fund.
1:27:00 If you don't like usury, abolish usury with Islam.
1:29:00 CHURCH OF ENTROPY joins, all guns blazing.
1:31:00 Freedom of belief in Malaysia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Malaysia
1:32:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Chinese
1:34:00 Bank of England
1:36:00 Church of Entropy thinks Leopold Weiss was a Bad Jew but Pakistanis seem quite fond of him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Asad
1:38:00 Because Leopold Weiss AKa Muhammad Asad was a Jew, Church of Entropy concludes that Christianity and Islam are both "Jewish religions" invented by Jews to exploit credulous gentiles who should instead embrace her religion and believe in her god whose morality is based on the Vedas that she has never read.
1:39:00 Everyone knows that Islam is supposed to abolish usury, but it is hard to do when everyone else is practising it. It is like trying to give up drink when all your friends are drunkards. That is why Secular Koranism - which would abolish usury - must go global.
1:41:00 Church of Entropy repeats the answer I always give on why it takes Islam to abolish it. Hitler tried to abolish usury, but since he did not convert Germany to Islam, usury was not abolished. Perhaps if he had used his time as dictator more profitably by using the talents of Goebbels to sell Islam to the Germans and dropped his antisemitism, things would have turned out differently for the Third Reich.
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/weimar-germany/gottfried-feder/
1:42:00 No religion other than an Islam proposes to abolish usury.
1:45:00 Church of Entropy refuses to debate me even though she has Gandalf by her side.
1:48:00 Christine Ramsay, Catholic
1:52:00 Church of Entropy rejected Catholicism.
1:53:00 We discuss her allegedly Jewish ancestry. Jen says her German ancestors come from Liebling, Romania which has no Jews according to the Wikipedia entry.
Liebling is a commune in Timiș County, Romania about 30 km south of Timișoara. It is composed of three villages: Cerna, Iosif and Liebling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebling,_Timi%C8%99
https://yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Banat
BANAT is a region in the southwestern section of Romania, between the Mureş and Danube Rivers. The oldest traces of a Jewish presence in the area date to the Roman period in the second through fourth centuries. A second-century coin issued by Shim‘on bar Kokhba discovered in Pojejena, as well as golden plates with Hebrew characters and Judaic symbols found in Dierna-Orşova, prove the existence of Jews among Roman colonists. After Banat became part of the medieval Hungarian kingdom in the eleventh century, the earliest reference to a Jew from the region dates to 1521 in the area of Caransebeş.
Banat became a Turkish pashalik in 1552, with headquarters in Timişoara; the area then was a province of the Austrian Empire subsequent to the Peace of Passarowitz (1718). Sephardic Jews from the Ottoman Empire lived in Banat during the Ottoman period; for example, 12 families (144 people) were living in Timişoara when the Austrians occupied the city. Jews from other parts of Hungary and more distant areas soon settled in the region. The Keppich and Bachrach families obtained imperial privileges to develop industry and trade, as well as to supply imperial garrisons. Jewish traders were intermediaries in trade relations with Venice, the Ottoman Empire, Poland, and Central European countries.
When Belgrade fell to the Turks in 1739, Banat’s governor Count Franz Wallis allowed Jews from that city to settle in the region. That year, Jews in Banat increased to 31 Ashkenazic families (139 people) and 15 Sephardic families (81 people). Totals rose in 1743 to 38 Ashkenazic families and 53 Sephardic in Timişoara and 11 families in the rest of the province. Between 1769 and 1774, the numbers rose to 353 people.
In 1779, Banat lost its autonomous status and was divided into three counties (Caraş, Timiş, and Torontal); it was administered by the Kingdom of Hungary within the general framework of the Austrian Empire. The provisions of the Tolerance Edict issued by Joseph II in 1783 for Hungary also applied in Banat; the edict stipulated that Jews were allowed to learn crafts and trades and to join guilds; Jews also were allowed to own and cultivate land. The humiliating distinctive symbols were eliminated, Jews were allowed and encouraged to set up their own modern school system, and they gained access to public schools at all levels. The effects of this relaxation were visible in the demographic evolution of the Jewish population from Banat. A census ordered by Joseph II in 1787 indicated only 226 Jews in the three counties of Banat, but this number rose to 686 in 1804, to 1,960 in 1821, to 4,158 in 1836–1840, and to 6,571 just before the revolution of 1848.
After emancipation in 1867, the number of Jews living in Banat doubled to 13,591, and the last census before World War I recorded 19,153, accounting for approximately 3 percent of the total population. After World War I, Banat became part of Romania, and the Romanian census of 1930 recorded 14,043 Jews in the region. Jews of Banat survived the Holocaust, as in the autumn of 1942 the Romanian government abandoned its deportation plans for Jews living in this region. Data from 1947 revealed the presence of 15,963 Jews, and the census of 1956 showed a total of 17,816. As a result of the mass emigration, however, only several hundred Jews were living in Banat in 2000.
At the institutional level, Timişoara was the only town to officially acknowledge a Jewish community in the eighteenth century. Except for the brief period when the Juden Ordnung was applied, there was in fact both an Ashkenazi and a Sephardic community, each of which built a synagogue in 1760; these synagogues were officially opened in 1762. A new Ashkenazi synagogue was inaugurated in 1862. Subsequent to the Congress of Jews of Hungary and Transylvania (1868–1869), the community in Timişoara was divided into a Neolog community that accepted the regulations adopted by the congress, and an Orthodox community that supported strict compliance with tradition; the Orthodox group established its own synagogue in 1895. Other nineteenth-century synagogues were located in Lugoj, Caransebeş, Făget, Ciacova, and Deta. In the eighteenth century and the first half of the nineteenth, the rabbi of the community in Timişoara also held the position of chief rabbi for the Banat province. The first to hold this position was Ya‘akov Mosheh of Belgrade (1739–1741), and the last was Tsevi Hirsh Oppenheimer (1821–1859).
There was even a Chief Rabbi in Banat.
Jewish education in Banat initially followed the traditional religious form. Modern schools were then established in Lugoj (1833), Virset, Becicherecul Mare (Zrenjanin), and after 1848 functioned in Timişoara (1857–1872), Făget (1871–1891), and Sânnicolaul Mare. Until World War I, Jewish elementary schools that taught Hebrew and Judaism also existed in the districts of Torontal (five schools) and Caraş (two schools). After World War I, as Jews in Banat began to reject assimilation and leaned toward Zionism, a Jewish high school with instruction in Romanian and Hebrew was founded in Timişoara in 1921. When Jewish students were excluded from the Romanian public education system during the Holocaust period, this high school served as the main Jewish educational institution in the region. Communist educational reform led to its closure in 1948.
Although strongly affected by restrictions and persecutions during the Antonescu regime, Jews in Banat survived the war. Some Jews were then attracted by the egalitarian slogans of the Communist regime established after 1945, but eventually Jews from this area of Romania emigrated in massive numbers to the State of Israel and elsewhere. By the early twenty-first century only several hundred Jews remained.
Antisemitism was officially enforced under the premierships of Ion Brătianu. During his first years in office (1875) Brătianu reinforced and applied old discrimination laws, insisting that Jews were not allowed to settle in the countryside (and relocating those that had done so), while declaring many Jewish urban inhabitants to be vagrants and expelling them from the country.
[So some Jews did settle in the countryside. Jews who did not want to move became Protestant to stay where they were.]
https://academic.oup.com/hgs/article-abstract/29/1/39/625377?redirectedFrom=PDF
Faced with increasing persecution, some Romanian Jews converted to Christianity before and during the Holocaust. While the Romanian authorities enforced the March 1941 law banning conversions, for various political reasons conversion to Roman Catholicism was treated differently. The papal nuncio to Romania, Monsignor Andrea Cassulo, as well as some specific Roman Catholic churches (the article looks at two in Bucharest) were willing to convert Jews as a way of helping them escape victimization. Yet the modest number of baptisms and the persistent allegations that they were performed in exchange for money suggest that, despite the political conditions that might have spurred conversions, the Catholic Church in Romania did not convert on a large scale, and that the initiative itself remained controversial.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/banat
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/timisoara
1:55:00 Church of Entropy's 3 minute word salad on the utility of morality.
2:01:00 ZUHER joins talking nonsense about the God of Christians being racist. He falsely claims that OV promotes Christianity. He also thinks hire purchase is usury and all Jews are criminals, murderers etc. I tell him to fuck off.
2:04:00 Usury TEDIOUS FAST-TALKING COMPLICATED DISCUSSION CITING A LIST OF JEWISH CONSPIRACY THEORIES
2:19:00 Gandalf affirms Church of Entropy's Supreme Jewish Conspiracy Theory ie that Christianity and Islam are "Jewish religions" created by Jews to dupe gullible gentiles.
2:37:00 Trump
2:46:00 Church of Entropy says Jews wrote the Koran because it acknowledges Jews as the "Children of Israel".
2:48:00 The righteous anger of Gandalf at the Abrahamic faiths
2:51:00 Church of Entropy rejects all the Abrahamic faiths because they are "Jewish" and proposes Entropism that doesn't come with the rule of law and has no scripture.
2:55:00 Do Jews know what is good for them?
2:56:00 Church of Entropy claims Christianity is a Jewish conspiracy.
3:02:00 DOMINGO joins to say Trump works for Jewish interests.
3:07:00 Barbara Lerner Spectre
3:09:00 USS Liberty
3:11:00 Dancing Israelis
3:17:00 The What Affair?.
3:20:00 Suez Crisis
3:22:00 Lord Moyne
3:23:00 Church of Entropy has the Greatest Jewish Conspiracy Theory of all because she blames Christianity and Islam on Jews.
3:24:00 Church of Entropy says the fact that the narrative that the Abrahamic God created the Universe is a Jewish conspiracy theory designed to trick and exploit gullible gentiles.
3:25:00 Church of Entropy says God "collaborated" with the Jews to trick credulous gentiles.
3:26:00 Church of Entropy calls Judaism a conspiracy theory and then promptly denies it.
3:27:00 Church of Entropy confuses a narrative with her conspiracy theory and calls it "a well-reasoned thesis". What is "a scientific hypothesis supported by tons of evidence and no countervailing evidence"? That Jews are responsible for all the ills of Christianity and Islam. Therefore all the Abrahamic faiths are to be rejected on the basis of this reasoning and those who want to worship God - who is also the Universe and indifferent to humanity - should embrace Jen's Entropism.
3:28:00 I explain the nature and purpose of religious narratives. Church of Entropy insists that her conspiracy theory is "science" and a "scientific hypothesis".
3:29:00 Conspiracy is defined.
3:30:00 King David Hotel
3:32:00
3:37:00 Church of Entropy: "It's a conspiracy theory until it is a religious narrative and it is a religious narrative when it has state power."
I would say a religious narrative only has power when a state adopts it. A religious narrative can only be legitimised by state power.
3:41:00 I ask Domingo why Church of Entropy thinks her theocracy of oral tradition based on no scripture whatsoever is better than my theocracy based on the Koran. Domingo's response is that her stated intention to acquire "Vedic superknowledge" that she has yet to do in this life but which she might in her next should be enough to satisfy all reasonable people doubtful of her claims.
3:44:00 Church of Entropy talks about cookery, woodwork and skipping lectures but still passing exams. She obsesses about demonstrating her "supreme knowledge". I said if anyone possessed this, it would be God Himself.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/timisoara
1:55:00 Church of Entropy's 3 minute word salad on the utility of morality.
2:01:00 ZUHER joins talking nonsense about the God of Christians being racist. He falsely claims that OV promotes Christianity. He also thinks hire purchase is usury and all Jews are criminals, murderers etc. I tell him to fuck off.
2:04:00 Usury TEDIOUS FAST-TALKING COMPLICATED DISCUSSION CITING A LIST OF JEWISH CONSPIRACY THEORIES
2:19:00 Gandalf affirms Church of Entropy's Supreme Jewish Conspiracy Theory ie that Christianity and Islam are "Jewish religions" created by Jews to dupe gullible gentiles.
2:37:00 Trump
2:46:00 Church of Entropy says Jews wrote the Koran because it acknowledges Jews as the "Children of Israel".
2:48:00 The righteous anger of Gandalf at the Abrahamic faiths
2:51:00 Church of Entropy rejects all the Abrahamic faiths because they are "Jewish" and proposes Entropism that doesn't come with the rule of law and has no scripture.
2:55:00 Do Jews know what is good for them?
2:56:00 Church of Entropy claims Christianity is a Jewish conspiracy.
3:02:00 DOMINGO joins to say Trump works for Jewish interests.
3:07:00 Barbara Lerner Spectre
3:09:00 USS Liberty
3:11:00 Dancing Israelis
3:17:00 The What Affair?.
3:20:00 Suez Crisis
3:22:00 Lord Moyne
3:23:00 Church of Entropy has the Greatest Jewish Conspiracy Theory of all because she blames Christianity and Islam on Jews.
3:24:00 Church of Entropy says the fact that the narrative that the Abrahamic God created the Universe is a Jewish conspiracy theory designed to trick and exploit gullible gentiles.
3:25:00 Church of Entropy says God "collaborated" with the Jews to trick credulous gentiles.
3:26:00 Church of Entropy calls Judaism a conspiracy theory and then promptly denies it.
3:27:00 Church of Entropy confuses a narrative with her conspiracy theory and calls it "a well-reasoned thesis". What is "a scientific hypothesis supported by tons of evidence and no countervailing evidence"? That Jews are responsible for all the ills of Christianity and Islam. Therefore all the Abrahamic faiths are to be rejected on the basis of this reasoning and those who want to worship God - who is also the Universe and indifferent to humanity - should embrace Jen's Entropism.
3:28:00 I explain the nature and purpose of religious narratives. Church of Entropy insists that her conspiracy theory is "science" and a "scientific hypothesis".
3:29:00 Conspiracy is defined.
3:30:00 King David Hotel
3:32:00
3:37:00 Church of Entropy: "It's a conspiracy theory until it is a religious narrative and it is a religious narrative when it has state power."
I would say a religious narrative only has power when a state adopts it. A religious narrative can only be legitimised by state power.
3:41:00 I ask Domingo why Church of Entropy thinks her theocracy of oral tradition based on no scripture whatsoever is better than my theocracy based on the Koran. Domingo's response is that her stated intention to acquire "Vedic superknowledge" that she has yet to do in this life but which she might in her next should be enough to satisfy all reasonable people doubtful of her claims.
3:44:00 Church of Entropy talks about cookery, woodwork and skipping lectures but still passing exams. She obsesses about demonstrating her "supreme knowledge". I said if anyone possessed this, it would be God Himself.
6 comments:
I think you lost the argument---I think Entropism and/or Entrophilic arguments are better than anything Abrahamic or Abrahamic adjacent.
What was the winning argument and who made it?
Well, it starts with the fact that Entropism understands God and Abrahamism does not.
How can you prove that Entropism understands God better than the Jews, Christians and Muslims?
Already did--- the Abrahamic God violates causality and is un-scientific. GAME. SET. MATCH.
You are saying that the Universe is the Uncaused First Cause while those who believe in the Abrahamic God says God is the Uncaused First Cause.
Since neither view is falsifiable, the merit of each can only rest with the track record of the three Abrahamic faiths. Judaism is for Jews and their existence has been said to be evidence of God's existence, and Christianity is kaput because it is an illegitimate, idolatrous and blasphemous religion whose doctrines were basically cooked up by some bishops in Nicaea at the behest of a Roman Emperor who was not even Christian.
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