THE VOICE OF REASON
Solon, (born c. 630 BCE—died c. 560 BCE), Athenian statesman, known as one of the Seven Wise Men of Greece (the others were Chilon of Sparta, Thales of Miletus, Bias of Priene, Cleobulus of Lindos, Pittacus of Mytilene, and Periander of Corinth). Solon ended exclusive aristocratic control of the government, substituted a system of control by the wealthy, and introduced a new and more humane law code. He was also a noted poet.
If you believe in the Abrahamic God then you would logically and necessarily have to obey His laws after knowing He has taken the trouble to reveal them.
When the Catholic Church was the European hegemon, European laws and monarchs were controlled by the Catholic Church until it lost the Wars of the Reformation. But even under Protestantism, Europeans framed their laws according to what they believed the Bible permitted and commanded.
The purpose of God is also to see that the ruler does not exceed the laws set by God and be a check on his power. "Be you ever so mighty, the law is above you" is a universal idea. Emperors of Ancient China were presumed to be given the Mandate of Heaven until it was withdrawn.
But if you believe in the eternal, omnipotent and supreme Abrahamic God who created the Universe and even now controls it, you would have to believe that everything happens for a reason, even bad things. We are being pushed along with a narrative towards a conclusion and this means our suffering has meaning, but it will only have meaning if we make a point of learning from our mistakes.
If you are an atheist, you don't have to believe in God to accept that the Koran containing the rule of law is considered to be most in harmony with the Seven Noahide laws by the rabbis of God's Chosen People. The Koran is believed by Muslims to be from God and is clearly more efficacious in promoting the rule of law than the New Testament written by mortal and fallible men such as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There are no Christian theocracies now accept the Vatican, but Iran under sharia has allowed it to defy the might of America and its allies.
There is no requirement to believe in God to restore the patriarchy, but it helps.
The law under liberalism is an ass, but why doesn't Christianity protect Western nations from gay marriage? Because it is kaput. Can any society survive without practising marriage and family values? The fact is that a matriarchy is a society whose members mostly do not practise marriage. All advanced civilisations are patriarchies, and all primitive, declining, extinct or soon to be extinct societies are matriarchies. If matriarchy is the problem, then patriarchy must be the solution. If patriarchy is the destination, then theocracy must be the vehicle. The kind of theocracy to choose would be one based in divinely revealed scripture eg the Torah or the Koran, because everything else is changeable or would fall out of fashion. Both Jews and Muslims are agreed that Christians are idolatrous because they worship an executed revolutionary as the co-equal of the supreme and eternal Abrahamic God.
Since the West became great as a Christian nation practising patriarchal moral values, it is time to consider its replacement, because no society can survive without a religion to bind its members together. Religion comes from the Latin "religare", which means "to bind". Religion is therefore the means that will obtain your society social cohesion and the building blocks of a stable society are families in which both husband and wife live together rearing their children in a loving relationship. The golden thread that runs through all the five world religions is respect for the practice of marriage and family values. Christianity no longer maintains the minimum standard of sexual morality that makes couples marry before they have children. The link between criminality and illegitimacy has been well-established over the ages.
If you believed in the Abrahamic God, you would find it easy to accept that Christians would be cursed by God for practising the idolatry He has specifically and explicitly forbidden in His Ten Commandments for 2000 years without showing any signs of remorse.
Even if you did not believe in God, you should be able to see how idolatry leads to self-worship because idolatry implicitly rejects the rule of God's laws found in the Torah or the Koran. Self-worship would lead ineluctably to self-destruction, which was what happened to Narcissus. It is not for nothing that a mental disorder was named after him. How long could any civilisation survive if both the governed (who will soon become ungovernable) and their government suffered from Narcissistic Personality Disorder?
The point is that practising idolatry means that we eventually fall into self-worship and therefore what happened to Narcissus will also happen to us and our civilisation if we reject Truth, Logic and Morality in favour of our own emotional, irrational and immoral nihilistic preferences.
When men of other races and nations know you are afraid of your immoral women, they will take it as a signal to invade and expolit
According to Marx, religion was the opium of the people before. Now recreational extramarital sex is their opium in our increasingly oppressive matriarchy. Liberalism is now sexual liberation.
And then the stream was ended by someone who entered the hangout and ejected all of us, obviously having taken a dislike to what I was saying.
The question is why the gentile in his own land allows Jewish organisations to bring unwanted migrants into their country. To be weak and stupid is to invite exploitation and abuse. There are plenty of gentile liberals encouraging Jews to be liberal. This is a matter to be resolved between gentiles themselves, surely? Obviously there will be white Western gentiles who want to co-opt non-white and Jewish minorities in their country to their political cause eg Sarah Jeong. The liberals being what they are would recruit far and wide amongst women, Jews and minorities while the Conservatives would be standoffish and exclusive with the predictable consequences of having a small narrow base of left-behind impoverished old angry technophobic white men regarded as bores even by others of their ilk from the lower strata of society with low standards of sexual morality and behaviour with addictions problems repellent to women of any race.
The kindest way to regard Jews and Judaism is this: think of liberal democracy as a toxic marinade and Judaism as a steak marinating in it with Jewish leaders now too morally poisoned by their moral environment to feel it to be their religious duty to remind the gentile when his laws fall dangerously below the minimum moral standards of the Noahide laws.
2:29:00 "Isn't Christianity infinitely flexible in political terms? Christianity was a key part of Europeans conquering the world and having strong identities as Europeans, Englishmen.Frenchmen or Germans and Christianity can also be an important part of the desire to contract Christendom and fill it with people who are hostile to Christianity. It is almost infinitely flexible in political terms."
The New Testament states nothing clearly, unlike the Koran, that is why you think it is infinitely flexible.
Christianity is now indistinguishable from Liberalism.
It is not quite so easy to distort the Koran once you control its interpretation.
Not for nothing has it been said that Christianity is the religion of religion and slaves, doubtless because of its ambiguity.
Ambiguity is a feminine stratagem, while men who make the rules like to state the rules clearly and men subject to those rules also prefer the rules to be stated clearly so that they can order their lives around these rules.
Islam is the more masculine religion because it is supposed to be the directly revealed Word of God revealed by a successful leader of fighting men, while Christianity is necessarily confusing and ambiguous because it took Christianity 300 years to establish itself with several different accounts of the deed and speeches of an executed revolutionary anxious to give God what is God's and what is Caesar's to Caesar, whatever that meant, and whatever that took to get himself out of trouble with the Roman authorities.
No honest reading of the New Testament would give any reasonable lawyer the desire to base a theocracy on its stupid stories and vague extremist pronouncements. The Koran, on the other hand, naturally lends itself to legislation.
Only the most chauvinistic cultural Christian would continue to insist that co-opted and corrupted Christianity is superior even as he disbelieves the Trinity but refuses to read either the New Testament or the Koran because he already feels sufficiently "informed" by his hatred of Muslims.
Jews have been identified as a source of immigration encouraging leftism by the angry white non-Muslim gentile male. The kindest thing to think is that Jews who become liberal think gentiles want them to be liberal. Could this just be a terrible misunderstanding? If you stay with a quarrelling couple and take sides, expect to be physically removed when you supported the losing side. Women are liberal, men are Conservative. Jews have been known to adopt feminine stratagems of victimhood as a means of acquiring status in their host countries while adopting overwhelming force when it comes to dealing with unwanted residents in Israel. Is this the fault of Jews if the gentile is so easily exploited and afraid of his women who don't care about the concerns of gentile men, these women who keep voting for pro-immigration parties, for leftist parties who want immigrants to vote for them by giving them passports? All political parties in the West have the strategy of soliciting the female vote because the female vote is the key to getting voted into office, followed by the most powerful minority of all, the Jews. This is predictably resented. The solution is so obvious: become a one party state and disenfranchise non-taxpayers.
The solution as I see it is to separate the good Jews from the bad Jews. There is nothing liberal or sexually liberated about Judaism. It also an abuse of hospitality - whether you be Jew or gentile - to be generous to people your hosts would consider unwanted intruders at your host's expense.
If you lose even when you win by playing by the rules and there is no longer any rule of law, then violence seems the logical next move. Trump won because he showed concern on immigration and even now the HIAS are trying to obstruct him when he is only trying to fulfill his compaign promises. They are doubtless also plotting his impeachment and assassination.
If we are of the view that things will have to get worse before they get better, then we will have to regard things getting worse as a sign of things getting better.
If we are of the view that things will have to get worse before they get better, then we will have to regard things getting worse as a sign of things getting better.
Even now Jews refuse to consider the grievances of gentiles. Anyone presuming to inform them of their grievances are told they are antisemites who should fuck off.
And then I was unfriended.
If we are not guilty of any act of violence, there is no moral reason why we should not say "We told you so and look what happened because you wouldn't listen. People will only play by the rules if they think they have a reasonable chance of winning if they do so, but you have rigged everything and the rule of law no longer operates. Do not be surprised then if some people become angry enough to take the law into their own hands when they already know that the legal and political system is kaput and rigged against them. If you already know people are so upset that they voted Trump because they have had enough of immigration, why are you obstructing him at every move and trying to import ever greater numbers of immigrants?"
You must have a really shit political system to let your minorities do this to you without any hope of fixing it. Why not admit it is shit?
Your religion must be kaput if it none of your leaders except Trump is trying to represent the interests of the beta male. Why not admit it is kaput? Why not take a more Jewish view of suffering and learn from it, rather than continue being women in denial? https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/suffering
To repeat: your religion and political system must be utter fucking shite if your minorities and elites can do this to you without any prospect of the problem being fixed.
Is it because Jews are so very clever, or is it because people who identify as Christian do actually have shit for brains?
Hey, maybe if you admitted that Christianity is kaput and democracy should be taken out with the trash, something might just change?
Otherwise, the white gentile male will be like his women: passively complaining waiting for his knight in shining armour.
"The Jews did it to us." Why did you let them do it? "Because we have have no moral agency, no leaders and no chain of command that will trigger any focused action to solve the problem because our religion and political system are no longer fit for purpose."
43:00 Jews get more left-wing as they get older? I know an elderly woman who voted to remain because EUrocrap represented her glorious youth.
45:00 Degenerate sex crap will always provoke a wave of self-loathing so intense it will spill over into violence. I seem to remember a book by Anthony Parsons who was describing the same thing happening in Iran before the Revolution.
Essentially (and in my view correctly), he argues that the Shah never understood how deeply resented were the changes he had wrought in trying to move Iran from feudalism to high technology in a generation, how much the young nationalists and the Shiite leaders hated what they saw as the political, cultural and economic colonization of their country by the West, mainly by the United States. I never heard it expressed better than by a young revolutionary of my acquaintance, who said that the trouble with the Shah and his circle was, ''They can tell you all about Chartres or the Colosseum, but they know nothing about the mosques of Isfahan.''
Bernard Shaw:
"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality, it will think of nothing else but getting it set again."
15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you: 16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. 17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed. 18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks. 19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out. 20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed. 25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you. 30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head. 36 The Lord will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the Lord will drive you. 38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39 You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land. 43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail. 45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46 They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the Lord sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you. 53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities. 58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the Lord your God— 59 the Lord will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The Lord will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess. 64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the Lord will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66 You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”—because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The Lord will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.
And when We decide to destroy a town (population), We (first) send a definite order (to obey Allah and be righteous) to those among them [or We (first) increase in number those of its population] who are given the good things of this life. Then, they transgress therein, and thus the word (of torment) is justified against it (them). Then We destroy it with complete destruction.
The measurable difference between an atheist (sexually liberated and dying childless) and a theist (staying married for the sake of the children, with the prospect of having legitimate grandchildren and descendants) is the way they behave.
If matriarchy is the problem, patriarchy is the solution.
If patriarchy is the destination, then theocracy must be the vehicle.
Christianity is kaput and Judaism is for Jews only. Hinduism and Buddhism are alien to Western traditions.
Gentlemen, I am afraid you have no choice but to adopt the ideology closest to the one that first brought you success and empire.
Your next book for your Book Cub should really be the Koran.
ON WAR AND EMPIRE
I tried to suggest to Irving that the British government would be even more invested in suppressing his version of history than the Jews themselves, but he wasn't interested in discussing it either. Over the years, people have been trying to suggest to him that WW1 is linked to the reasons for WW2, but he just wasn't interested. WW1 and WW2 were of course two ruinous British imperialistic wars gone wrong with two Pyrrhic victories. This is actually more interesting than yet another pogrom against the Jews because they must deep down be used to this sort of thing by now with their history. But WW1 and WW2 was an imperial nation shooting itself in the head twice . Britain basically played double or quits and lost. What we have to understand is this: thalossocracies are quickly formed and quickly disintegrate. Like Britain, America is also a thalossocracy.
FREE SPEECH AND SEXUAL LIBERATION
The narrowing of the boundaries of free speech is directly related to the expansion of sexual freedom. You have been bribed by the bribes of feminism and on each occasion you eagerly drink from the cups of poison regularly offered you to keep you quiescent. Why keep blaming the Jews when it is your failed religion that does not protect you from yourselves? Don't the gentiles of gentile America have their own censorship laws? If they fail to enforce them, must they blame Jews again? These groups just push, and when each time leaderless beta males only yield like water, then they will keep pushing, won't they?
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
This verse is limited in space and time. " It can be seen that Slay the unbelievers where you find them" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
The believers must not establish friendship with the unbelievers in preference to the faithful. Whoever does so has nothing to hope for from God unless he does it out of fear or taqiyah (pious dissimulation). God warns you about Himself. To God do all things return.
This seems fair enough. It can be seen that "Muslims must not take infidels as friends" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
No religion other than Islam (submission to the will of God) will be accepted from anyone. Whoever follows a religion other than Islam will be lost on the Day of Judgment.
If you believe in this threat, then by all means embrace Islam, but if you do not believe in the existence of God, then why should a threat from a non-existent God about a hell you do not believe in move you one way or the other? Be logical now! It can be seen that "Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
The only proper recompense for those who fight against God and His Messenger and try to spread evil in the land is to be killed, crucified, or either to have one of their hands and feet cut from the opposite side or to be sent into exile. These are to disgrace them in this life and they will suffer a great torment in the life hereafter.
Except for those who (having fled away and then) came back (as Muslims) with repentance before they fall into your power; in that case, know that Allah is OftForgiving, Most Merciful.
It does indeed offer crucifixion as a punishment for violent anti-Islamic revolutionaries, but it also offers the option of mercy. It can be seen that "Maim and criticise infidels if they criticise Islam" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."
This is because they defied and disobeyed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then verily, Allah is Severe in punishment.
Is it being suggested that Muslims in battle have no right to kill their enemies, which remains the sole right of Islamophobes? It can be seen that "Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Koran" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
Mobilize your (defensive) force as much as you can to frighten the enemies of God and your own enemies. This also will frighten those who are behind them whom you do not know but God knows well. Whatever you spend for the cause of God, He will give you sufficient recompense with due justice.
What exactly is the problem of trying to frighten your enemies when you are engaged in battle? It can be seen that "Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
Prophet, mobilize the believers for the battle. It will take only twenty of your men who are steadfast (in prayer) to defeat two hundred unbelieving men. Your two hundred men would defeat their two thousand; the unbelievers have no understanding.
It can be seen that "The Unbelievers are stupid, urge the Muslims to fight them" is not an accurate translation of this verse, but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
It can be seen that "When the opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!
It can be seen that "The Jews and Christians are perverts, fight them" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
Believers, fight the unbelievers near you for the cause of God so that they realize your strength and know that God is with the pious ones.
It can be seen that "Make war on the infidels living in your neighbourhood"is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe. quran.com/9 is about the foreign policy of an Islamic State and not about telling Muslim householders to murder non-Muslm householders in their neighbourhood.
(Those who prostrate themselves before God and those who do not) are two groups who dispute with each other about their Lord. For the unbelievers the garment of fire has already been prepared. Boiling water will be poured upon their heads.
This verse obviously refers to hell, and is not telling Muslims to make unbelievers wear garments of fire or pour boiling water on them.
So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost,
It can be see that "Do not hanker for peace with the infidels, behead them where you catch them" is not an accurate translation but a deliberate distortion of this verse made by an Islamophobe.
This tweet is timed as 1033 PM and dated 19 September 2017.
@Dora_Chance @CrispySea Humanist - sex offenders who think it is their right to commit sexual offences
I have not deleted it as I was invited to by Twitter but cannot in any case see it, can you?
THE BASIS OF MY APPEAL
Humanists invariably believe in their right to indulge in extramarital sex which the religious regard as sexual offences. For example, the Koran says fornication and adultery is a sexual offence that deserves corporal punishment in 24:2, which is a valid opinion based on undisputed fact. I believe I have the right to express a valid opinion ie an opinion which is reasonable to hold based on undisputed fact without having my account suspended simply because humanists - who are the overwhelming majority of tweeters - disagree with me. I also believe that it is right that Twitter support this right in order to facilitate the free exchange of ideas.
Is there a lecture on The Relevance of the Koran for Law and Ethics in Society Today? If not, is there one to come?
Has Rabbi Sacks read the Koran?
Why did China decline? The way all civilisations decline, when they stopped being outward looking, started breaking their own rules and no longer allowed free speech. The advisers of the emperor were traditionally were allowed to speak their mind, but later they were tortured for doing so. The Mandate of Heaven was in fact a theocracy, was it not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven
The Abrahamic God is the most powerful idea conceivable, and this was what the West worshipped. But so too is the Islamic God the Abrahamic God. What went wrong for them? https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3114/muslims-ijtihad
"During the twelfth century, nevertheless, there were still attempts to use rational and deductive reasoning. In Muslim Spain, for instance, Averroes (aka Ibn Rushd, 1126-1198 CE), one of the founders of secular reasoning in Europe, refused to accept the closing of the Gates of Ijtihad. He continued to use Arabic translations of classical Greek sources, and preferred strictly rational methods to decide matters in contention. As in the Muslim world the Gates of Ijtihad had been closed, however, his rulings proved unacceptable."
Western military supremacy was of course achieved through warfare amongst European nations. The more you fight, the better you get at it. Scientific advance is always accompanied through warfare because necessity is the mother of invention. Not only did Christians conduct the Crusades against Muslims, they massacred each other too in the European Wars of Religion. After having started two World Wars, military supremacy inevitably followed.
"The place in the world where Christianity is growing fastest today is China" - Communism is materialist which means it is an ideology that does not take into account abstracts us as spirituality and contentment. Things and resources being finite and our desires infinite, demand will always outstrip supply and cause greed, envy, anger, conflict, division and perhaps eventually the disintegration of the group. Perhaps it will not be long before the Chinese establish their very own Church of China?
If your proposition is that the West is most successful because it worshiped the most powerful God, what happened to the Muslims who also worshiped the same God? It seems that all adherents of Abrahamic faiths have at some time in their histories lost their way after breaking their own rules. When Jews broke their own rules they suffered invasion, conquest and exile. I am sure this applies to all the other Abrahamic faiths. Christians have now so utterly forgotten their Christian principles they no longer talk about sin or hell and indeed are no longer even Christian and should be more accurately described as Post-Christian. In 2014, it was discovered that the Archbishop of Canterbury is so theologically ignorant that he did not even know that he was supposed to believe in the Trinity, the indispensable ingredient of being Christian. This was when he confessed to sometimes doubting God existed, but was absolutely sure about the existence of Jesus, as if that were enough. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/archbishop-canterbury-justin-welby-questions-whether-god-exists-n206261
It seems from his utterly imbecilic comment that he was not even aware that neither Jews nor Muslims denied the existence of Jesus.
Rabbi Sacks mentioned morality and the law and discussed the problem of what we should do when the law entitles us to do that which we know to be immoral.
QUESTIONS FOR RABBI SACKS
1) What should we do when we know our government is promoting policies that we know to be evil because they undermine the institutions of marriage and the family such as no fault divorce, the civil partnership, gay marriage as well as encouraging transgenderism in primary school children?
2) Is our government being actively evil, or just confused and misguided?
3) If our government is evil, then it must be overthrown. If it is merely confused and misguided, is decades of policies promoting sexual liberation in an environment of indiscriminate universal suffrage the cause of this confusion?
4) Is it possible for these policies to be corrected under the current political system?
5) If we come to the conclusion that it not possible for these policies to be corrected under the current political system, what should we do?
6) If our solution to the problems created by policies designed to promote sexual liberation and gender confusion as well as undermine the institutions of marriage and family is not allowed under the current political system, will we be accused of extremism?
7) If we are accused of extremism, bigotry, intolerance and hate speech, what should we do?
8) Are we governed by Amalekites if our government promotes policies that break all the principles of the Noahide laws?
9) Do Jews have a religious duty to exterminate Amalekites or at the very least denounce them?
10) If someone comes along claiming to have a solution to these problems, should this person be regarded as a potential Mashiach even if they are neither male nor Jewish, but possibly descended from King David who had 700 wives and 300 concubines?
I deplore this attempt to blame women for all the ills of mankind and will address it now, once and for all.
If men now blame all their problems on women, they should also remember that most of their pleasures also come from women.
The Chinese word for GOOD consists of the an amalgam of the word FEMALE and CHILD. I only wish I could have been there when Chinese scholars were debating how to represent the concept of GOOD with which words.
Now that this was the compound word arrived at, one must logically ask if this hypothetical Chinese female would be a slut or this hypothetical Chinese child a bastard. NO, is my answer. If most of your women are sluts and most of your children bastards, then it means the men have lost control, and this is BAD and you should be doing something about this, if there are any moral men left in your society.
Women are indeed temptation for men, but imagine a world in which there are no temptations you could be tempted by. In that case you might as well be dead, or a Buddhist.
Love them or hate them, you can't live without them. By this I mean whether you are a man or woman and hate the opposite sex, you must know that your civilisation cannot continue without the opposite sex.
If the military without women is the exemplar of a hierarchical patriarchy, then the bee colony is the exemplar of an apparently egalitarian matriarchy.
If you asked a wise Chinese person such as myself what feminism represents, I would say it represents the eternal temptation of heterosexual men: fornication. You will not be able to find a single feminist who supports slut-shaming because the secret agenda of feminism is to empower sluts who become the mothers of bastards.
Yin and Yang came from the Ancient Chinese asserting the rather Newtonian principle that every action causes a reaction, and this represents the eternal battle of the sexes.
The sad fact is that sex must never be free for Man because, if it ever did, his civilisation would decline and fall. He must always pay for sex, and this is why the prostitute should always be treated as above the fornicating slut in any rational and well-ordered patriarchy.
There is a reason why our matriarchy have more or less criminalised prostitution: because feminist sluts want to retain their stranglehold monopoly on the supply of extramarital sex to heterosexual men. This is how the matriarchy bribes men who could become fathers of legitimate children into accepting the oppression of the matriarchy.
Marx once said religion is the opium of the people in a patriarchy.
In a matriarchy, fornication is the opium of the people.
We are a matriarchy hooked on fornication.
All it takes is any group, however barbaric, to practise the rules of marriage better than we do, and it will be the end of our civilisation.
What the objection to halal slaughter which says that the best way to kill an animal is by cutting its throat so it bleeds to death ASAP? https://t.co/NrFGhjvLoi
When the Torah says “an eye for an eye”, the Talmud explains this is not taken literally but means monetary compensation must be paid for an injury. When the Torah specifies the death penalty of stoning, the Talmud explains it meant the offender was hurled down from a high place – rather than pelted with stones.
The Koranic treatment is most sensible because it makes sodomy a sexual offence. If you are arrested, tried and convicted you are punished, if not, you are spared, but it remains a sexual offence.
If you must do it, don't get caught.
Once Israel is a theocracy, there will be no such arguments between rabbis on this matter any more.
The punishment for extramarital sex for heterosexuals is 100 lashes. For the sake of sexual orientation equality of punishment for those who indulged in extramarital sex, 100 lashes is what should happen to sodomites too, if caught cottaging or some such. http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=24&verse=2
Rabbi Bassous is clearly issuing a very stern warning to Orthodox Jews not to go down the slippery slope where degenerate Christians have already slid down long ago.
Although Rabbi Dweck has not actually said anything halachically wrong, in my humble opinion, his non-condemnatory tone towards the sex revolution is obviously more than any Orthodox Rabbi who takes his Orthodoxy seriously can bear.
Rabbi Mizrachi talks about the "rotten rabbis" who bring the culture of the goyim to corrupt Orthodox Jewry, worse even than Christians or Muslims. They are "horrible people" trying to modify the Judaism. Worst of all are those Orthodox Rabbis who call themselves "modern".
Maimonides views the two major religions, Christianity and Islam, as necessary preparations for the coming of the Messiah and the universal worship of God that will follow in the future.
In his legal opus Hayad Hachazaka, Maimonides states that thanks to both these religions “the world has become full of the ideas of the Messiah, the ideas of the Torah and the ideas of the commandments, so that these have spread to faraway islands and to many dim hearted nations, and they now discuss these ideas and the commandments of the Torah.”
Nevertheless, Maimonides considers both Christians and Muslims to be heretics, mostly because of their various replacement doctrines regarding the Torah and the status of the Jewish nation.
So far, though, Maimonides’ assertions are expressed in the abstract, without hard and fast references to their halachic implications. Both Islam and Christianity are far better than the pagan religions, and both of them are a far cry from the truth of God’s only Torah.
Unlike the Bible, the Koran is a book of instruction, and while most of the eloquent prose shows the path to virtue, there are also violent commands to slay the unbelievers and behead those who insult Allah or his messenger. These lines cannot be deleted, but I hope that British imams, scholars and ordinary Muslims will be at the reformatory vanguard, rejecting literal reading of deadly verse as incompatible with modern, civilised society.
Do please bear in mind that The Conservative Woman is run by Islamophobic Catholics who want to intern and expel Muslims.
How do I know that they are Islamophobes?
Because they cannot make the connection between Western foreign policy and the Muslim terrorism it provokes.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Their hated, fear and anger makes blinds them to the obvious fact that if you invade lots and lots of Muslim countries in a short space of time, you are going to get some kind of blow-back, particularly if you already have a significant minority of Muslims already living in the West and if you keep admitting Muslim migrants whose countries you have destroyed.
I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute—and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.
Foreign policy is not even mentioned once in this Islamophobic diatribe.
Clearly, Dr McCrae is conveniently conflating the immigration he hates and fears with the religion he hates and fears and added it to the matriarchy he hates and fears.
To not see this after it has been repeatedly pointed out to you, or to wilfully avert your eyes whenever this is pointed out to you, is a sign of denial and neurosis.
Physician, cure thyself.
ERROR NO 1:
The Koran is silent on beheading.
ERROR NO 2:
9:5 of the Koran:
"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
Read Chapter 9 of the Koran and note its context. It is about treaties and battle orders.
How quaint that Niall McCrae thinks only non-Muslims have the right to slay each other in battle, but not Muslims.
Muslims at any rate did not cause two World Wars and nuke two Japanese cities and mass-murder non-combatants.
ERROR NO 3:
The Koran is silent on beheading those who insult Allah.
ERROR NO 4:
The Bible was intended as a book of instruction.
Jefferson bought a copy of the Koran when he was a law student between 1760 - 1767.
Thomas Jefferson first came to Williamsburg to attend William & Mary in March 1760. Until April 1762, Jefferson lodged and boarded in the building known today as the Sir Christopher Wren Building. He remained in Williamsburg to read law for the next five years under George Wythe, the distinguished jurist who was to become the first professor of law at William & Mary in 1779.
VIRGINIA STATUTE OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PASSED IN 1786.
The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom is a statement about both freedom of conscience and the principle of separation of church and state. Written by Thomas Jefferson and passed by the Virginia General Assembly on January 16, 1786, it is the forerunner of the first amendment protections for religious freedom.
The First Amendment, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights, was submitted to the states for ratification on September 25, 1789, and adopted on December 15, 1791.
Koranic principles of warfare only allow defensive wars which obviously would have prevented the two crazy World Wars that ended European hegemony. Why did Britain enter WW1? To protect Belgian neutrality. Britain's Liberal Prime Minister Asquith only entered it thinking it would be a short successful war after which the boys would be home for the Christmas of 1914 so he could win the subsequently cancelled election of 1915.
Imagine! To lose your world empire over a stupid election because of a lecher of a Liberal Prime Minister, henpecked by his wife and writing love letters to this mistress after the war had started!
Oh yes, and multi-party democracy is obviously wrong because it warns us against dividing our national ideology into sects and rejoicing in our own doctrines such as Conservatism, Liberalism, Socialism etc which are now indistinguishable from each other in terms of policy except in hating Donald Trump.
The Koran also says slave girls are part of war booty but you must marry them if you want to have sex with them and must have no more than four wives. While they are allowed to be prostitutes to earn their manumission, you must not compel enough, which is fair enough.
This does suggest that the Confederate South should have won the American Civil War because slavery is tolerated by the Koran. If that were so, America would not have entered WW2 because it would just not have been united or powerful enough to take over from the empires of the Europeans after the they destroyed themselves in two World Wars ignoring the Koranic rules of warfare.
This of course also means that the Yanks would not have nuked the Japanese twice, which is also against the Koranic principles of warfare, by the way.
God rewards those who obey His laws, and punishes those that do not, as we are now seeing from the imminent collapse of the West.
Would a quick collapse be better than a slow collapse? There would be less suffering and bloodshed, I imagine.
Anyone legally trained would know the superiority of the Koran compared to the Bible. God if He exists is the best legal draughtsman of all. A good legal draughtsman states the terms of the contract clearly and has the foresight to anticipate the situations when questions could arise over the validity of the terms.
Why the Koran does not forbid bestiality
The Koran does not explicitly forbid men from having sex with animals because God in His wisdom assumed women wouldn't want to marry men known for having sex with animals.
The Koran forbids sexual relations between father and daughter but the Bible does not https://quran.com/4/23
One of the most notable features of all the lists is that sexual activity between a man and his own daughter is not explicitly forbidden. Although the first relation mentioned after the Levitical prohibition of sex with "near kin" names that of "thy father",[10] it must be taken into account that the Hebrew original text only addresses male Jews with regard to their female relatives.[11] The talmud argues that the absence is because the prohibition was obvious, especially given the proscription against a relationship with a granddaughter,[12] although some biblical scholars have instead proposed that it was originally in the list, but was then accidentally left out from the copy on which modern versions of the text ultimately depend, due to a mistake by the scribe.[13] The second list in the Holiness code noticeably differs from the first by not including the closer relatives, and it might be assumed that obviousness is the explanation here as well.[1] One might argue that the explicit prohibition against engaging in sexual activity with a woman as well as with her daughter,[14] implicitly forbids sexual activity between a man and his daughter. However, the rationale might suggest otherwise (the original text is unclear here), since it mentions only that "they" (i.e., the woman and the daughter) are related.[15] John Calvin did not consider the father-daughter-relation to be explicitly forbidden by the bible, but regarded it as immoral nevertheless.[16]
The Bible does guarantee religious tolerance and freedom of worship and belief
By how many years did the Koran precede the First Amendment?
The Koran is conceptually superior to the Bible
The Koran is conceptually superior to the Bible, because it is said to be the directly transcribed Word of God revealed over a period of 23 years by the same prophet while the Bible is only hearsay evidence from many sources over many many many centuries.
The Bible does not propose a flat rate income tax of 20%
The Bible does not propose a flat rate income tax of 20% nor does it give you the constitutional right not to be pay more than a flat rate income tax of 20%, does it?
Because Muslims treat marriage as a contract, the state supporting marriage in these terms allows it to implicitly abolish no fault divorce, because this means divorce will only be allowed if the terms and conditions of the marriage contract are breached by the party at fault.
Finally, sluts will be shamed by quran.com/24/2 - the only way to curtail the power of sluts in the matriarchy.
Only a one-party theocracy governed under the principles of Secular Koranism can effectively overthrow the matriarchy and stop it from re-establishing itself again.
Does @michaelgove mention that Arabs who are Muslims are also Semitic people? Anti-Semitism is Trinitarian hatred of Unitarians. https://t.co/YlrPVIBQsK
Does @michaelgove mention that Arabs who are Muslims are also Semitic people? Anti-Semitism is Trinitarian hatred of Unitarians. https://t.co/YlrPVIBQsK
The world's most powerful tribe, who controls the selection of the US Presidential candidate, must expect to be envied, hated and feared. https://t.co/YlrPVIBQsK
Antisemitism is thoughtcrime giving Jews the right not to be hated or offended, privileging them. Privilege is resented by those denied it. https://t.co/YlrPVIBQsK
The most powerful tribe in the world should expected to be hated and resented if it does not denounce the West, who break the Noahide laws. https://t.co/YlrPVIBQsK
6 million Jews being murdered by the Nazis is not enough for Israelis to have peaceful enjoyment of Israel, it must also be a theocracy. https://t.co/YlrPVIBQsK
If Israel became a theocracy, from which holy book should it base its theocratic laws? a) Old Testament b) New Testament c) Koran https://t.co/YlrPVIBQsK
The verse atheist liberal feminists hate most in the Koran concerns a husband's rights over his wife, if he maintains her:
004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women,because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
You would have thought a reasonably intelligent woman could easily avoid being beaten if she heeded all the prior warnings she would get from her husband before she got her beating.
An employee gets a verbal warning, a written warning and then a final warning before being sacked by his employer.
A recalcitrant wife also gets two warnings over a longish period of time before she gets beaten. How long would it take a husband to formally admonish his wife? If he takes it up to the next level ie does not have sex with her and makes her sleep in the spare room or the sofa, then clearly she has not modified her behaviour.
There should be a Matrimonial Disputes Tribunal for the admonition to be first registered, to see that both parties to the dispute are taking this matrimonial dispute seriously.
I don't see why we cannot have a Matrimonial Disputes website for these admonitions to be registered online and for the wife to have a right of reply if she does not think the husbandly admonition justified or reasonable.
If the recalcitrant wife does not mend her behaviour, he can just give her a slap on the wrist and record the fact with the Matrimonial Disputes Tribunal that he has "beaten" her.
If she still does not mend her behaviour, he can proceed to divorce her under the rules of fault-based divorce.
That would sound fair enough to me. (Contrary to rumours that I am really a white man pretending to be a female and foreigner, I am in fact female and not white. I just think, talk and write like a man because that is how I would like things to be if I were a man and felt compelled to marry and have legitimate offspring and in so doing invest in the future of his society, nation and civilisation.)
Firstly, the prosecution will assess if there is any evidence against her, for which she can be tried.
If there isn't, there would be no trial.
If there is, she would stand trial.
Secondly, the court will listen to the prosecution and the defence along with all witnesses and evidence.
They have the dress. They know it is her dress and they know it is stained with his DNA.
Have you read my link?
No.
Should I?
Of course!
I want you to tell me if what I think would happen is correct.
Does it add any benefit to the progression of science?
We are not talking about science, are we? We are talking about law and morality.
Pure or social?
Social science.
We are talking about sharia law, actually.
Read it and you will see.
Ok.
I've read it.
And ... ?
The verse 4/15 refers to sexual intercourse
So, your inference isn't correct.
What is the point of 24:2 then?
24:2 is about the non married man / woman committing fornication.
Lewd act short of full intercourse makes more sense.
4;15 is about married women.
Sahih International: Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way.
Pickthall: As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
Yusuf Ali: If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
Shakir: And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.
Muhammad Sarwar: Those of your women who commit fornication, let four (Muslim) witness testify to their act. If there is sufficient testimony, confine them to their homes until they die, or until God provides a way for their freedom.
Mohsin Khan: And those of your women who commit illegal sexual intercourse, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them (i.e. women) to houses until death comes to them or Allah ordains for them some (other) way.
Arberry: Such of your women as commit indecency, call four of you to witness against them; and if they witness, then detain them in their houses until death takes them or God appoints for them a way.
It didn't mention married women.
Lewdness is just a translation of the Arabic
الفاحشة
Married women is inferred by "your" women.
I don't know any Arabic, so the point's lost on me.
Sahih International: The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah , if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
Pickthall: The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
Yusuf Ali: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Shakir: (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.
Muhammad Sarwar: Flog the fornicatress and the fornicator with a hundred lashes each. Let there be no reluctance in enforcing the laws of God, if you have faith in God and the Day of Judgment. Let it take place in the presence of a group of believers.
Mohsin Khan: The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's Law).
Arberry: The fornicatress and the fornicator -- scourge each one of them a hundred stripes, and in the matter of God's religion let no tenderness for them seize you if you believe in God and the Last Day; and let a party of the believers witness their chastisement.
Not necessarily.
So what happens to adulterers and adulteresses?
The Arabic text has to be understood in the context of the language.
If you don't know Arabic, no point making judgements.
So what happens to adulterers and adulteresses?
If 24:2 does not apply to married people committing adultery, are you saying there is no punishment for adultery?
That's where there is some contention between traditionalists and modernists.
What is the source of this contention?
No clear Quranic prescription
Do you believe fornication should be punished but not adultery?
I'm not a person. I'm an organisation.
Very well then. Does your organisation believe fornication should be punished, but not adultery?
Both are legal in the UK.
So, there is no judicial punishment for either.
However, they are both major sins, which are detested by Islam.
If the UK were an Islamic State, are you saying Muslims would want fornication to be punished, but not adultery?
If the UK was an Islamic state, they would define the legal framework then, according to the judicial parameters set by the judiciary.
What does YOUR ORGANISATION believe to be the appropriate punishment for adultery?
Before punishing either, the state would need to propagate decency.
Decency has to be a norm.
Let us assume that has been done, then what?
Then, the judiciary would define the parameters.
And how would the judiciary define these parameters?
According to the legal reference which may be shariah, common law, European law, human right conventions, etc.
We don't know, until it happens.
Don't you think it would make more sense to interpret 24:2 as applying to both fornication and adultery?
Quranic text cannot interpreted in isolation. There are contexts.
Can we ask you a question?
Of course.
Why the article about Monica in relation to Quran?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming… Even Americans think she's a slut. Islam can be useful to the West as a tool of slut-shaming and a weapon against degenerate feminism. While Muslims may not care about non-Muslims in the West, they should bear in mind that their degenerate culture will soon affect subsequent generations of Muslims living in the West. Degenerate Liberals will not be happy until they see the first gay marriage being conducted in a mosque. I blog about the application of sharia to demonstrate my knowledge of it too, obviously. By demonstrating its application I hope to make it more appealing. Currently Westerners have made an idol of the slut and democracy it is this worship of these idols that makes them fools to themselves. I mean by that that Feminism and Democracy are their sacred cows. My purpose is to be iconoclastic.
"Quranic text cannot interpreted in isolation. There are contexts." You mean you have to follow the Hadith, which says stone them to death?
The Quran was revealed in a time and space questions, addressing issues and matters.
To read the verses in isolation would be to misread the purpose of revelation.
So, there are hundreds of verses which refer to specific incidents. One needs to understand those incidents, to understand the Quran.
You just want to stone adulterers/follow the Hadith, which isn't even in the Koran.
The Koran is the word of God, the Hadith only the reported speech and deeds of the prophet by his companions. I know you Muslims prefer this secondary source because, well, that's what you've been doing for centuries now.
It would be commonsensical to reject anything in the Hadith that contradicts the Koran, but it seems you lot are too far gone now to think of doing such a thing. Stoning or nothing, eh?
I don't think we ever mentioned stoning.
You've brought that up.
I did notice that you were very careful to avoid mentioning it, being a Hadither.
We absolutely follow Sunnah which is a source of legislation.
We follow Quran and Sunnah as primary sources, and a whole lot of secondary sources.
Yes, I know. The nastiest things in Islam come from the Hadith, which you lot prefer to the Koran. I do know about this. You would rather stone adulterers to death.
The Koran is the PRIMARY SOURCE of the Word of God, because that is what it claims to be.
The Hadith can only be a secondary source of rules, but I know you people are immune to logic.
Much more fun to stone adulterers to death, I know.
Koran = by God
Hadith = by mortal men
BIG DIFFERENCE. But you prefer to stone adulterers to death.
So, how do you explain
Verse 4:80?
Or 59:7?
Or indeed 53: 1-5?
4:80 He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.
A clear indication that the Messenger is a source of legislation
That just means people should follow the prophet. Now that he is dead and cannot be followed, we follow the Koran, which is the PRIMARY SOURCE of God's word, trumping the Hadtih.
That's nonsense
Because the verb is in the present / future tense
59:7 has no relevance now, because it only applies to what Muslims had to do when the prophet was still alive.
What verb?
يطع
Which verb in which verse?
Do you know Arabic?
We have been through this before and I told you NO.
And you will say because I don't know Arabic you win the argument.
So, you aren't in a position to debate the Quran.
So go ahead and stone adulterers. Enjoy.
We never brought up stoning. YOU did???
What does the Hadith say about the punishment for adulterers then?
All these contortions and convolutions, just because sadists like you want to stone adulterers to death.
My advice to you is
17:36
I know Hadithers want to stone adulterers TO DEATH.
No such thing as hadithers.
My advice to you is
17:36
What does the Hadith say about adulterers?
Why are fixated on adultery?
Why are fixated on Monica? And "sluts" as you put it?
Don't judge others! Judge yourself.
Judge yourself before you will be judged by the Almighty.
Because the Koran does not say stone adulterers to death. It is an INNOVATION.
Are you Muslim?
I do judge myself.
We have been through this before. Can you scroll back to my answer?
Stop judging others, then.
Move on.
Get a life!
Are you telling me not to be judgemental? You sound just like a liberal!
How odd for someone who wants to stone adulterers to death!
Let he who has no sin cast the first stone!
Claire, stop being childish.
What does the Hadith say about the punishment for adulterers? Surely you know!
Claire, are you a nazi?
I'll tell you after you answer my question about what the Hadith says about the punishment for adulterers.
I've asked enough times.
No need. You are a nazi!
How am I a Nazi?
And you have the audacity to accuse me of being a sadist?
What a clever way of changing the subject when you won't answer the question about what the Hadith says about the punishment for adulterers.
You follow the Hadith, which means you want to stone adulterers to death.
Call me a Nazi if you want, but I ain't a member of the defunct Nazi |Party.
I am not even German.
What does the Hadith say about the punishment for adulterers?
Are you going to answer the question?
Is that you?
Yep
So, You ARE a nazi?
I have a niqab somewhere. Does that make me Muslim?
If I am photographed outside a police station with a policeman's helmet on my head, does that make me a policeman? I would suggest not. Now, how about answering my question about the punishment for adulterers in the Hadith.
So you love Hitler who gassed the Jews?
Where did I say that?
You're a Nazi.
A fascist
I am Facebook friends with Jews, who have seen those photos, incidentally.
A fascist - is that a social conservative?
Did the Jews deserve to be killed?
Is that why you hate Monica?
I thought Muslims are also social conservatives, aren't they?
The Qur'an does not mention the act of stoning. However, according to one hadith this is because the verse(s) calling for rajm were accidentally eaten by a goat. [Narrated 'Aisha] "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper." Muslim scholars have rejected this hadith, however because all common routes of transmission of it either contain narrators charged with dishonesty when disclosing their sources, or (in the case of the version in Ibn Hanbal's Musnad) conflict with all versions of the hadith which bear authentic routes - none of which mention the goat eating the piece of paper.
